Normal Skills are normally enough....

[RCKT GRL]

I was out on the Motorcycle Safety site and came across this case study. 

http://www.msgroup.org/CASESTUDY1.aspx?nu=9

EDIT:  PLEASE SEE THIS CASE STUDY:  http://www.msgroup.org/CASESTUDY1.aspx?num=9

I think that this goes along with the 'wrong place, right time' scenario I mentioned in the other thread. 

Of course, the study does not state what, (if any) protective gear said motorcyclist was wearing at the time of the accident. 

There are several other interesting Case Studies to ponder....  thought some of you may enjoy.

[beedawg]

Denyse, I'd argue that this person lacked normal skills.  She wasn't skilled enough to keep the bike in her own lane at less-than-legal-limit speeds.

"As we completed the curve I noticed that Karen was in the left track rather than the right one (not unusual after negotiating a curve), but instead of moving to the right to get back into the 'slot', she seemed to be aimed directly for the white truck. She had apparently 'target fixated' (locked her eyes on that truck) and panicked. She (very quickly) crossed the centerline in the road (by about 6 inches) and was headed for a head-on with the truck (she was leaning towards the right, but the bike kept moving leftwards - counter-steering totally forgotten!) when the driver of the truck took very aggressive action to try to avoid the accident and pulled it sharply to the right. This successfully avoided a head-on collision, but Karen still sideswiped the truck, hitting it at it's left-front quarter-panel, and all along its left side from front to back."

Normal skills would have been enough to keep her in her own lane.

Now, if the pickup had crossed the line and come into her lane, then I'd be inclined to agree with you.

Brent

P.S. That description of her injuries is way too graphic for me.  It makes me squirm in my chair and gives me the heebie-jeebies.

[Vander]

Wow.

I love this new section.   


And I would agree with Brent that the lack of skill contributed to the rider's crash.
I'd would, however like to ask... what you all consider a normal skill -set to be?

I would say that the riders on this forum typically exhibit extraordinary skill-sets that are beyond the regular weekend riding enthusiast.

[RCKT GRL]

Hmmm, obviously I copied the wrong case study!!

http://www.msgroup.org/CASESTUDY1.aspx?num=9

this is the one that I was referencing...  sorry 'bout that!

[beedawg]

OK, Denyse.  I wondered whether maybe you were talking about a different article than the one I read.

The motorcyclist should have been able to brake, release the brake, and then swerve.  Separating braking from swerving is part of the BRC curriculum, although there's no range exercise where students are expected to brake before swerving.

But even more importantly, the rider should have been able to reduce his speed without locking the rear wheel.  That's a pretty normal skill.  And had he not locked the rear wheel, he would have been able to swerve without crashing, even with the rear brake still applied.  Locking the rear wheel demonstrates a lack of normal skills.  In fact, over-reliance on the rear brake demonstrates a lack of normal skills.

Even better, if the rider had been playing a game of "What if...?", then when he saw the red truck crossing the gore, he would have positioned himself in the right side of his lane, slowed a little, and been ready for the blue car to encroach in his lane.

[Deplorable, thank you!]

Sadly after having read both articles I think these are "normal" skills of many riders on the roads today.

They get through the basic riding abilities of being able to leave a light without killing their bike and to stop and the learning ends, for far too many.

 I do not believe many motorcyclists have nearly the riding abilities that are actually needed even though they may possess what the minimum requirements are in order to get the license.

[RCKT GRL]

I do not believe many motorcyclists have nearly the riding abilities that are actually needed even though they may possess what the minimum requirements are in order to get the license.

Unfortunately, I feel this is all too true of many riders today.  Statistically speaking, I think the number of underskilled riders far outweighs those of the skilled riders on the road today.

I personally know of several very new riders that have not even completed a BRC, but have a permit are out riding with the general public.

[mngir1]

It would seem to me that death from a lowside in this example was most likely caused by no helmet/lack of appropriate gear.
I've seen riders walk away from a lot worse at the track.  How much skill does it take to strap on a helmet? 

I agree that the rider could easily have easily avoided this incident by scanning the road ahead, being aware of traffic patterns, slowing, planning an escape route, and using basic braking and swerving skills.  "Normal skills" would have enabled the rider to simply keep on riding.  Loss of life?  How sad and unnecessary.

[pkpk]

I've come full circle on this one over the last 25 years.

Early in my riding career, the ride was all about fun, scenery, friends, some drink (errr, yeah) and while I didn't plan to crash, I made sure I didn't crash.  I did take a BRC, but no further training.

Over time I morphed to having the need to look and act like Ironman on a motorcycle.  I rode ERC almost every year.  I didn't have much tolerance for people who wouldn't consider proper training and proper gear.  In short, I looked down on anyone who treated riding as a casual weekend pleasure.  They had no business being on the same road as me.

The last few years, I am come back to somewhere in between.  I have coworkers who ride Harleys.  One is not a poser and laughs at my gear and fully faired motorcycle.  I make fun of his loud pipes.  However we get along the best because we genuinely respect each other.   He has ridden 45 years and who am I to judge his riding ability.  His bike is the only one in the parking lot in March and November.  At this point, I have concluded that a guy like him doesn't need to me to point out how he should take annual riding training.  Is he "skilled"?  Well he drinks and rides, I doubt he is skilled after drinking.  But he hasn't ever had a crash either.  He must be doing something right.  I decided I'm not going to be judgmental about my perception of his riding skills.

The point, what are one man's "riding abilities" are another man's natural survival skills.  He lives on his bike, much more than 99% of everyone I know who rides.  I know he never took a BRC (he laughed when I asked if he has ever had training.) 

[vince]

I have two parts to this. They don't say what type of bike it is, a cruiser or anything else. I say this because on bikes like standard and touring and sportbikes you have the rear brake pedal set so that in a normal riding position you can ride with your foot on the pedal but resting on the foot peg. On cruisers your normal riding position is that you feet are in front of you. Your toes are up like you are sitting in your car with one foot on the fire wall and the other on the gas pedal. Also on this type bike the brake pedal is higher than the foot peg and this makes it so you have to pick your foot off the peg and over and then down on the brake pedal. Look at the time lost hear. Also these bike have very strong rear brakes so in a panic you have two reactions, one to get your foot on the pedal and the other to slow your foot down so you don't over react and lock up the rear brake. Which in this case may have been the problem. On my black Harley I had to take my foot peg, brake pedal, and linkages to a machine shop to get the pedal low enough to that I could ride with my foot on the pedal in a normal riding position. My other bike I can get the pedal level but the brake has way to much power. In fact the rear disc is the same size as the front.
The other is I don't think he even used the front brake. We all know how important this is. He may have not needed to do anything else.
Something else, why not learn how to use the brakes even in a turn. If your not using maximum braking you can lean the bike over and back. Use more or less brake as needed. Yes is is nice to get all your braking done all at once then turn but sometimes just getting out of the way first then some brakes if you know what I mean.

[mngir1]

Some really good points, Vince.  I didn't even think about the potential time lapse involved for a cruiser or Harley rider to get their foot to the brake or the potential of someone not to even use the front brake. Interesting thoughts to factor in.