Helmet Laws

[aschendel]

i think that nicely illustrates the misguided nature of many of the "we want you make our decisions" causes.

a.s.

[aschendel]

also note, one side is wearing helmets and eye protection. 

[slh7d]

haha, that picture made me laugh out loud (literally) LOLL?

[Tim...]

What metrics exist for having a helmet law in MN?

How about a graduated license system like they have in the UK?

[pkpk]

How about a graduated license system like they have in the UK?

Harley and Polaris would kill that thought off in a heartbeat.

[Elk]

Eh, even though I'm a Libertarian I think there should be a helmet law.

Just to be clear, I have not expressed an opinion.

I did checked on the statute.  When it was first enacted it included a provision that a non-helmet riding motorcyclist could not sue for injuries which would have been prevented by a helmet.  This remained on the books for over twenty years.  It has since been repealed.  However, the seat belt gag rule is still the law.

[Ray916MN]

Here's an interesting slant on the topic.

http://www.fairwarning.org/2012/06/despite-death-toll-motorcycle-groups-strive-to-muzzle-u-s-regulators/

[aschendel]

Slant is right   I especially like the roadkill paragraph.

At the risk of introducing something tangential, but near and dear to my heart, "5.4 million people die each year — one every six seconds — from lung cancer, heart disease or other illness directly linked to tobacco use. Smoking killed 100 million people in the 20th century, and the yearly death toll could pass 8 million as soon as 2030 — 80% of those deaths will be in the developing world, where tobacco use is growing most rapidly."

Read more: http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1711154,00.html

Call me back when we have a solution to the "drain on society" that smoking is and we can talk about putting helmets on a few people that aren't smart enough to do it themselves.

a.s.

[mikey]

so what happens when we protect everyone from everything and we all live to be 120yrs old?  natural selection isn't the worst thing going on .  I've lost loved ones and seen accidents with helmets and without, every situation is just a little bit different.  Then again i dont think there should be public assistance period, or very very minimal at best.

[beedawg]

Call me back when we have a solution to the "drain on society" that smoking is and we can talk about putting helmets on a few people that aren't smart enough to do it themselves.

Is the "social cost" of smoking as high as the "social cost" of helmetless riders?  The Time article you referenced makes no claim about the cost of smoking, only the death toll.

The few people I know who've died of smoking-related illnesses went pretty quickly, but I have two friends from childhood who will never live  independently because of traumatic brain injury.

[pkpk]

Smoking causes all sorts of peripheral issues on the body (poor circulation, reduced immunity, emphysema, cancers beyond the lungs.)  I have a couple of family members who have had persistent issues since their early 60's that are traced directly back to their two-pack / day habit.  While they are insured, they are well beyond their own insurance contributions at this point and are contributing to the cost of premiums.

[beedawg]

What metrics exist for having a helmet law in MN?

I'm not sure what you're asking, Tim.  Are you asking what evidence there is that a helmet law is ineffective in saving lives, reducing injuries, or having any other "good" effects?

How about a graduated license system like they have in the UK?

Maybe a slight thread-jack, but an interesting question to me.  I personally think a graduated system is an excellent idea, although I don't support increased legal restrictions on motorcyclists.  Graduated licensing seems to be more effective than training in reducing motorcycle crashes, though.

Brent

[aschendel]

Call me back when we have a solution to the "drain on society" that smoking is and we can talk about putting helmets on a few people that aren't smart enough to do it themselves.

Is the "social cost" of smoking as high as the "social cost" of helmetless riders?  The Time article you referenced makes no claim about the cost of smoking, only the death toll.

The few people I know who've died of smoking-related illnesses went pretty quickly, but I have two friends from childhood who will never live  independently because of traumatic brain injury.

I don't know the medical costs, specifically, but even dying fast can be costly; and I'm going to bet that of the people dying every six seconds, they're not all covering all of their own expenses.

Anyhow, I'm not sure if you are thinking big picture enough.  Dead people are worthless, for starters.  Kids without parents, parents without parents, employers without employees, etc. etc. etc.  Also I know of people that "can't" pay their child support but can afford to smoke, can't afford their house, can't keep a job, can't do any number of things but somehow make it a priority to smoke.  There are dozens of people where I work that lose hours of productivity each day as they don't have time to do their work but have time to take a smoke break.

<shrug> I'm not anti-freedom to smoke, but the cost seems extraordinarily high to me.

a.s.

[Vander]

Here's an interesting slant on the topic.

http://www.fairwarning.org/2012/06/despite-death-toll-motorcycle-groups-strive-to-muzzle-u-s-regulators/

There's a comment posted to this article that has me spinning...

What this article fails to lay out is the amount of deaths from states with helmet laws compared to states with. Missouri has a higher motorcycle fatality number compared to Arkansas which has no law.
Also, lets talk about the helmet. I personnaly have buried 2 close friends that dies because the strap on their helmet cut off their esophogus and they chocked to death. When is the last time the helmet has been tested… the 60s. Bikes today are faster, traffic is heavier, and yet we are still being forced to wear 50 year old technology. If the NHTSA want to force the issue that we have to wear a helmet, then force the manufactures creat a helmet that will not cause damage to the rider. If this can not be done, then the helmet should not be forced down our throut.
And while we are discussing head injuries due to accidents, just as many cage drivers recieve heand and neck injuries as motorcycle riders, yet no one is advocating mandatory helmets or neck support for drivers.
As far as the checkpoints, I have no issue, think they work to remove people off the road that have no insurance, drunk drivers and more…so why do we need one just made for motorcycles? Would we be exempt from all other check points? NO. If they want to fund a nation wide any vehicle checkpoints, so be it, but to say they need to do this only to motorcycles is the same as all people that have middle eastern look to them need to be strip searched in an airport.

[beedawg]

There's a comment posted to this article that has me spinning...

I personnaly have buried 2 close friends that dies because the strap on their helmet cut off their esophogus and they chocked to death. When is the last time the helmet has been tested… the 60s. Bikes today are faster, traffic is heavier, and yet we are still being forced to wear 50 year old technology.

Yep, them damn helmet straps are always cuttin' off them-thar esophogii and chocking bikers to death.  They should do like I do and cut them-thar helmet straps off.  That way they won't be gettin' chocked to death.

I wonder how many people who don't wear helmets actually believe stuff like this, or if this is just someone who wants an excuse not to wear a helmet.  I know that some people just assume full-face helmets have to be uncomfortable, and some cheap ones really are uncomfortable to me, but most people don't understand how comfortable a good full-face helmet can be.

Speaking of comfort: I bought a half helmet to wear in the parking lot.  It seemed like a good idea, instead of beating up my nice helmet, to buy something just for classes, maybe something I could even leave on between exercises, something I could hear and be heard in.



One day while I was riding one of the training bikes, I decided to ride off the parking lot and down the road.  45 mph was plenty for me.  Half helmets aren't nearly as aerodynamic as my full-face helmets at speeds over about 15 mph.  That really was uncomfortable.

And 50-year-old technology?  I wonder what that means.  Yeah, I've seen a few people bring some pretty old helmets to class.  That's why I keep a few helmets in the trailer.