Fuel Management

[PKPK]

Greg, wasn't trying to piss you off.  Note your points.  Maybe giving you more opinion that you wanted/needed, whatever.  Wasn't my goal to be condescending one bit so sorry it came off that way.

Wasn't exaggerating one bit about the 500 mile day, straddling the bike at gas stops.  It is what *I* do on my rides.  Wasn't saying it was what you do.

[Tumbler]

Felt-up. I haven't seen an anagram in a long time. Mark you have been in the service way to long.

What can I say Vince....my 3.5 years in the military plus 17+ years in public safety has had an effect on me I guess.  LOL

To follow on the heels of what others have said about the structure off rides....I'll add that I do have a way I like the rides I lead to go.  But I try to make sure people know this up front so they can make a decision on if it is for them or not.  I certainly don't expect others to conform to my way of leading/setting up rides though.

Up until the season of 2008 most of my rides were 3 to 6 bikes at the most, but since then I've led groups as big as 40 bikes.  Of course those are two extremes but what I'm pointing out is simply that every ride is different & every ride leader does things differently.

In my humble opinion that is one of the fun things about being part of a diverse forum such as MSTA...after all variety is the spice of life as they say.

[PKPK]

I already have the Turkey Ride, the day after Thanksgiving.  I should really rename that one the *Watch Joe fall off the ladder putting up Christmas lights Ride* because that is clearly the popular day for this.  While I could move this ride earlier in the season, the real reason for the ride is the novelty of riding through towns that have their Christmas Lights on.  Plus it is truly the last decent ride of the year.

I used to have the Die Hard Ride earlier in November, which was a series of curvy roads on the north side of the cities and down the west side to Chaska.  I stopped that one because it really should have been the *Lose Every One Around Elk River Area Ride* as the constant road construction made following route sheets impossible to even make.

But I decided I will have a ride in October that I have been doing every year for probably 10 years now.  It involves slabs and rustic roads.  It starts in Prescott, works over near Chippewa Falls then heads north to Hayward, over to Danbury then down to St. Croix Falls on Cty F.  It sounds like a lot of slabbing but the roads are actually well chosen for scenery and I am usually home by 6 pm.  See the "Lac Court Oreilles" ride in the old MN-Sportbike GPS routes.

One thing I really didn't intend is to come off making it sound like I was critical of the rides, the type of rides, the routes, the riders, etc.  In hindsght, the point I was trying to (poorly) make is the sense of failure you might feel if a ride doesn't go as planned.  The reason I brought up the variety of rides was to demonstrate the point of riding is to have fun, and accept the fact that unexpected or unplanned stuff almost always happens. 

[KoopaTroopa]

One of the last rides I was on, Lloyd showed me how to put an extra 1/4 gallon in just by standing the bike upright, not leaned over on the kickstand. That evtra bit of fuel got me to the next stop. I had no idea it would matter that much. Even a few more drops could get you 2-3 more miles, or at least enough momentum to coast you into town

[Ray916MN]

Stupid question, if you are not riding as a group, then why call it a group ride? I'm not trying to be an ass, but when someone tells me there's going to be a group ride, it generally means that you will ride "as a group", which means you stay together.

Should there be different terminology for a ride that someone leads as to if it is going to be a group ride or some type of free form ride?

For example, if its a ride that I'm leading, I will wait for people at major turns so people don't need to worry about getting lost. Even with a route sheet, traffic signs, highway signs can still get confusing, especially with every road having two names now, a street name and then also some type of highway or county designation. That's just the way I like to do things, others do it differently, which is fine, to each his own.

I think when someone puts a ride up they should designate whether its going to be a "free form" or "group lead" ride, this way the people looking to go on a ride can choose based on that whether they want to participate or not. Free form would be a route sheet is provided and a starting point and time designated as well as stops, but everyone can ride their own ride. I've been on those rides before. A group ride would be that a group has a leader and everyone will ride as a group and the leader will make sure the group stays together and everyone is accounted for.

I realize alot of you guys have ridden together for a long time, so there can be assumptions made that everyone understands how the ride is lead, but as things open up to new riders to your organization, I think this deserves some thought. Its really about a persons choice, but they should have all the facts before going on the ride as to what type of ride it is.

Again, no harm or ill will is meant towards anyone, just throwing this out there as something to think about when posting a ride.

Thanks for reading

Rides which are open to everyone and anyone to come on can be run in different ways.

I think everyone understands the rides run on this forum are not group rides in the sense of a MNSBR or ZG kickoff rides where everyone rides as one huge group. The rides run here are ideally intended to broken up into smaller groups of like minded, like paced riders. Over time, people who ride together figure out who their kindred riders are in a group and in my experience come to naturally know when they show up for a ride who they'll ride with. As people don't always ride the same pace or ride with the same mind set, when they feel sportier or tourier (I can refudiate with the best of them), they will also ride with different paced or different mindset riders on occasion. People switch groups at stops or on the road and some decide to go off and ride on their own depending on how they feel on a ride and who shows up for a ride. To me this is the way it should be.

When we first starting doing open rides a decade ago, there was allot of debate and discussion on how group rides should be run. People had different opinions on pace, how to keep a group together, whether passing should be allowed, and all the other stuff. There were allot of intense debates which degenerated the way virtually all intense Internet debates degenerate into a battle of who is right and who is wrong. The idea here is that the only right that counts is riding safely within one's limits and without endangering others. If you have preferences for pace, how to run a group, how long to stop at a gas stop, how often to stop, find other riders in the group who share your preferences, or invite other riders to the group who share your preferences so you'll always have kindred folks to ride with on a group ride. We see these as preferences, not rights and wrongs.

With respect to leading and being led, implicit in MSTA rides is that the organizer will be a group leader. To support people who volunteer to organize rides, we make sure to have other folks lined up who will lead other groups. This is a contrivance we are doing to accommodate people who are new to our rides. Ultimately we hope to have enough riders who have ridden with us long enough to have a feel for the differences between everyone in the group and to be comfortable leading a group, so we don't have to make sure there are folks to lead groups. There are few rides, which run this way, Rivers Ride, Slimey Crud, and Turkey Ride are examples. The preponderance of folks who show up for these rides have been doing MSTA rides for years.

As I wrote in my original response, I think allot of this stuff settles out over time.

Hope this response helps put my previous comments in perspective.

[Elk]

I don't know if this is directed at me (Ducati 999), but a quick reply:

The bike is good for roughly 90 miles before the fuel light goes on.  I knew I could not make the first leg of 127 miles.

Thus, I topped up at the station a couple blocks from Beth's.

I also determined in advance that there is a Kwik stop two blocks off of the route in Fountain City and asked for a brief splash and go stop (or indicated I would stop by myself and catch up).

I was quick and we got going promptly. 

I'm sorry if this frustrated others.  I am also in the "let's ride" camp and don't like standing around so I get it.

Ehrich

[Elk]

This means that ride routes are often the equivalent of skiing "black diamond" ski runs. Low speed tight turns are the point, not high speed sweepers or straightaways.

Exactly.

Fast straights and sweepers are the bike, not rider.  No need for a route for a high speed blast - and what's the point anyway?

On the other hand there is a place for sedate scenic rides to a nice lunch, etc.  It's been clear to me from the routes and posts which is which.  However perhaps this should be more explicit.

Ehrich

[KoopaTroopa]

I agree with Elk and Lloyd, I enjoy the twisty roads not becuase I care to go really fast, but because I enjoy the difficulty in pushing myself a little harder. Now when I attend slower paced rides, I start to get bored. If people learned to ride a more controlled pace, you wouldn't be guzzeling the gas so much on the straight aways.

Sweepers are a lot of fun, but unfortunately they are spread out in ares that don't offer much else.