How Can We Make 2011 A Crash Free Year?

[kp]

two crashes in the last week that I know of, not counting the deer and track.

[Tumbler]

I didn't know about the track crash at all....was it DCTC?  Those don't count I would think.

I was talking about the one on 95 outside Arcadia Sat afternoon where the rider was airlifted.

[Deplorable, thank you!]

 Perhaps I am just used to hearing about atleast 4 or 5 crashes every week for the past several years

Many of these are easily predictable just on how the people ride, some are just a fluke occurances and some are understandable in the nature of the spirited riding done and the locations of said riding, others are nature fighting back....lol
I am pretty sure that most members on here certainly do their own version of risk management and ride within some boundaries they set for themselves...I only know of a couple members who routinely go ride triple digits, most are pretty conservative "pace" riders...or atleast those I ride with regularly

The 3 deer hits from members of this forum this year hopefully is an anomily and not a new trend.

The airlifted biker in Arcadia--that was a cruiser woman from that area wasn't it?? She crashed by following another biker into a bridge or something--(not from this forum)--not that I am trying to be insensitive to her injuries or anything

[vince]

The airlift biker was on his wife new bike. It was a speed triple that was new to her and not a new bike.

[tk]

I think I knew that rider who was airlifted. He usually rode a new VFR. Hope he is okay.

We've had our share of crashes on rides posted on this forum. A Honda comming back from TWISTAR, a Kawi at STAR and more recently a crash on Goodhue 7. I think it is just the nature
of the activity that there will be some crashing. Long, tiring rides on fast bikes on challenging
roads is more dangerous than cruising along a straight road for a 2 hour ride on a Harley. Just
my .02.

[Chris]

I think I knew that rider who was airlifted. He usually rode a new VFR. Hope he is okay.

We've had our share of crashes on rides posted on this forum. A Honda comming back from TWISTAR, a Kawi at STAR and more recently a crash on Goodhue 7. I think it is just the nature
of the activity that there will be some crashing. Long, tiring rides on fast bikes on challenging
roads is more dangerous than cruising along a straight road for a 2 hour ride on a Harley. Just
my .02.

Thats a very good .02

[Greg]

. Long, tiring rides on fast bikes on challenging
roads is more dangerous than cruising along a straight road for a 2 hour ride on a Harley. Just
my .02.

I'll agree with this and also say ... A long tiring day on challenging roads ridden at a brisk pace also requires a more advanced set of riding skills then tooling along on a cruiser 15mph below posted speeds. (and there's nothing wrong with tooling along at a snails pace, if that's what you enjoy)

Greg

[flyinlow]

I think I knew that rider who was airlifted. He usually rode a new VFR. Hope he is okay.

We've had our share of crashes on rides posted on this forum. A Honda comming back from TWISTAR, a Kawi at STAR and more recently a crash on Goodhue 7. I think it is just the nature
of the activity that there will be some crashing. Long, tiring rides on fast bikes on challenging
roads is more dangerous than cruising along a straight road for a 2 hour ride on a Harley. Just
my .02.

+1

[Ray916MN]

There is a distinction which needs to be made in the discussion. There are "forced" and "unforced" riding errors.

A forced error is one where the rider is pretty much powerless to avoid an accident. Although I believe we must always take some responsibility for accidents, there are mitigating factors which may make it basically impossible for a rider to do anything to avoid an accident, aside from not riding. An example of a forced accident might be a drunk driver coming across the center line on blind turn.

An unforced error is one where a rider screws up and has an accident while riding in normal riding conditions and situations. An example of an unforced accident might be when a rider fails to negotiate a sharp turn traveling at the suggested speed for the turn, without any road surface issues or other extraordinary reasons for crashing like an oncoming vehicle in the lane of travel, fallen tree limb or animal crossing the road.

Luck has allot to do with forced errors, luck has little to do with unforced errors. While allot of riding, just like roiling the dice often increases the likelihood of crapping out in the game of craps, raises the likelihood of forced errors, lack of experience, and good judgement raises the likelihood of unforced errors.

We need to be hypercritical in looking at our accidents to learn from our mistakes and we need to take advantage of the accidents of others and learn from them, as this is the cheapest way to learn. For example, the forced error example of drunk driver over the yellow in a blind turn is a real example of something which happened to a rider many of us know. The lesson the rider learned and shared with the rest of us: don't ride in Wisconsin when the Packers have just finished playing a game as the likelihood of drunks being on the road is increased.

Hopefully this forum and discussion will help us all develop the experience and judgement to distinguish between forced and unforced errors and how what most might consider a forced error, might be considered an unforced error. The more we find successful ways to consider forced errors are unforced errors, the less our riding safety depends on luck.

[RCKT GRL]

Maybe it's time for each of us to take a long look at how we ride & maybe take some experienced rider courses or something.

Really?  Maybe we should all wrap ourselves in bubble wrap, sell our motorcycles and take up knitting?  But then, when one of us gets a prick on the finger, you'll want to ban knitting needles too!  LMAO!

Also, I've probably taken twice as many experienced rider courses this season than I have during the last 5 yrs combined.  I think that was an ignorant statement.

On another note, if you hear about someone crashing, instead of theroizing about what happened or asking someone else, why not get it directly from the person involved and not go FISHING for answers to your questions.

LIFE is SHORT, LIVE your PASSION!

[Greg]

There is a distinction which needs to be made in the discussion. There are "forced" and "unforced" riding errors.

A forced error is one where the rider is pretty much powerless to avoid an accident. Although I believe we must always take some responsibility for accidents, there are mitigating factors which may make it basically impossible for a rider to do anything to avoid an accident, aside from not riding. An example of a forced accident might be a drunk driver coming across the center line on blind turn.

An unforced error is one where a rider screws up and has an accident while riding in normal riding conditions and situations. An example of an unforced accident might be when a rider fails to negotiate a sharp turn traveling at the suggested speed for the turn, without any road surface issues or other extraordinary reasons for crashing like an oncoming vehicle in the lane of travel, fallen tree limb or animal crossing the road.

Luck has allot to do with forced errors, luck has little to do with unforced errors. While allot of riding, just like roiling the dice often increases the likelihood of crapping out in the game of craps, raises the likelihood of forced errors, lack of experience, and good judgement raises the likelihood of unforced errors.

We need to be hypercritical in looking at our accidents to learn from our mistakes and we need to take advantage of the accidents of others and learn from them, as this is the cheapest way to learn. For example, the forced error example of drunk driver over the yellow in a blind turn is a real example of something which happened to a rider many of us know. The lesson the rider learned and shared with the rest of us: don't ride in Wisconsin when the Packers have just finished playing a game as the likelihood of drunks being on the road is increased.

Hopefully this forum and discussion will help us all develop the experience and judgement to distinguish between forced and unforced errors and how what most might consider a forced error, might be considered an unforced error. The more we find successful ways to consider forced errors are unforced errors, the less our riding safety depends on luck.

Great post, Ray.
Over my 13 seasons of street riding I'd guesstimate of the "accidents" I've witnessed, 40% were forced and 60% were unforced.

[Mike Duluth]

It seems to me there are a lot of crashes this year, but the number of people I ride with has increased dramatically. Also in my opinion the outcome of a crash has very little to do with a riders level of experience. I have seen people with just a couple of year experience go down a 120mph get up and walk away. Rider with tons of riding time, and in my opinion very good riders, go down at 40mph and get all busted up. One time a guy flew 8ft in the air, came down in a bunch of trees, he was gurgling in his own blood, was air lifted out, didn't come too till the next day, they cut him loose from the hospital the next day. The one thing these guys all had in commin, besides riding bikes, none of them remembered what happened. So in my opinion what they say about your brain not letting you witness your own  demise is true in most cases. It is the luck of the draw where you crash, there is no getting good at crashing, unless your in a controlled environment like the track. Ego's have more to do with the way we ride than any other factor, and I'm just as guilty of this as anyone else. Since I have been riding with faster, better riders, I do things I would never do on my own, so in my opinion it is my ego that pushes me to try and keep up,and ultimately will be the cause of my crashing.

[Greg]

pushes me to try and keep up,and ultimately will be the cause of my crashing.

This is why there are route sheets.

(Mike, The following thought is directed at "the motorcycle community as a whole" and not you specifically)

Let's pretend that a person goes to a rock climbing event. The organizers of the event have 3 cliffs marked off with signs that read "Beginner", "Intermediate", "Advanced". This pretend person goes to that event with 6 buddies, all of which have done this climb many times and the 6 buddies go over to the "advanced" cliff. It takes intellectual and emotional "smarts" for the pretend person to NOT follow his buddies over to the advanced cliff if it is said person's first time at the event.

No "crashes" are inevitable unless very poor choices are made.



*edit*
To the group: Do not be mistaken that I'm assuming in my post that just because someone rides "faster" that they are therefor "advanced". That clearly isn't the case.

[pkpk]

Maybe it's time for each of us to take a long look at how we ride & maybe take some experienced rider courses or something.

An ERC isn't really a solution to the reasons riders crash.  ERC is good to renew good habits and have an instructor watch to see what bad ones you've developed.  It's done a relatively low speeds in a parking lot.  I don't see this translating into a solution for a rider over braking in a very fast corner or following too closely.   

I know the solution to this is going to vary person to person but I know I'm going to be taking it a bit easier when I ride the rest of this season.

That IS the solution for a number of riders.  The problem is where to draw the line for someone who is consistently riding over their head.  But what do I know, I spent yesterday riding around taking pictures of dams (smell the flowers rider.)

BTW, you can go back and read the posting from MN-Sportbike from 10 years ago and you will find EXACTLY the same discussions that summer.  A number of those riders went into club racing.

[Chris]

Greg, with all due respect you confuse me, in one post you say

It's always possible to find a person who has an opinion that may differ from another persons choice they made.

then you turn around and say

No "crashes" are inevitable unless very poor choices are made.

what I am reading is in one thread your saying that a persons choice to ride on bad tires is there opinion, and they should not be called on it, then you turn around and say that crashes are not inevitable unless very poor choices are made, after just saying it was there own choice.