My Crash, limited time viewing now

[Aprilian]

Staggered riding is actually a formation which supposedly allows closer safe following distances. Generally people say in a staggered formation on straights that a 2 sec spacing to the bike in front of you and 1 sec spacing to the bike in the other tire track is okay. Personally I kind of like 2 seconds to the nearest bike irrespective of formation, but that is another discussion.

One problem comes up when people ride staggered on the straight and then ride single file through a twisty section.  What was a 2 second gap to the bike in front of you becomes a 1 second gap as the rider from the other track moves into the same trajectory you are riding.  When people are riding close to each other, probably the last thing they want to do (as the road gets fun) is to slow down and let the previous rider get ahead.     For that reason, I stay furhter back even when riding in a staggered group.   I've even been known to be invisible and not even on the same ride :-p

[pkpk]

Well then you know Vince, Ray and tk better than I.  So, your comment about 82mph being too fast wast meant for everyone.  I thought that was direct at me specifically, because Vince, Ray, and tk have taken that 95 way faster than I.

Yep, and they know where I stand on this.  They also know better.  I'll quote Vince on a line he gave a few messages later, "One reason I got so many tickets in the past. Now that I pace ride, stop laughing, I get less tickets and everything lasts longer on the bike as well. I do this now riding the snowmobile and brakes and belts last a lot longer. Sometime I turn into a squid again. It's hard to get rid of old bad habits sometimes. "

I can give him credit for trying. 

My point remains this....no one (that I saw) has brought up speed as a contributing factor here.  Fine...you guys are confident that you can go into that first corner doing 70, but still need to stand on the brakes right through the corner and and another one loses the front end.  A whole list of mitigating factors were given, except for speed.  But where is the error margin when you most need it? 

[gely]

Objurgate == Lloyd for the time-being.

Ah, got it, haven't been here for awhile. I was wondering why I haven't seen him commenting, thought he might be on vacation.

I personally think its a great discussion, as it got everyone thinking about following distance.  I normally leave more distance between me and the guy in front than most people.

thanks for the info on the brake light/camera misfit, figured something was up after seeing the same spotty light on the 2nd vid. 

but anyways, leave your 5/15 watt tail bulbs in people, those pinkish LED bulbs don't work as well, despite what the Ebay listing tells you.

It's not some cheap Ebay brake light. It's a stock.
Just because I took today off from work, I made a quick video clip of my light here.

http://youtu.be/J6qUTy9huQw?hd=1

[RCKT GRL]

It's not some cheap Ebay brake light. It's a stock.
Just because I took today off from work, I made a quick video clip of my light here.

http://youtu.be/J6qUTy9huQw?hd=1

so, it always flashes like that when you're not "on" the brake? 

That is distracting and would be annoying IMHO to ride behind.  I would want it to be just either "on" or "off". 

[carlson_mn]

No the LED frequency just makes it look like that.  BMW knows how to do LED's right, the aftermarket replacements are usually a joke. 

[Chris]

My point remains this....no one (that I saw) has brought up speed as a contributing factor here.  Fine...you guys are confident that you can go into that first corner doing 70, but still need to stand on the brakes right through the corner and and another one loses the front end.  A whole list of mitigating factors were given, except for speed.  But where is the error margin when you most need it? 

yeah, I just went through the posts (quickly) and did not see on mention of SPEED, which was defiantly a factor, we all seamed to pile on the close riding but nothing about the speed.

[Tim...]

Curious as to how this accident is related to Calculus (that is, rate of change)?

[gely]

Curious as to how this accident is related to Calculus (that is, rate of change)?

Derivative of speed, gives you acceleration/ deceleration.

It's not some cheap Ebay brake light. It's a stock.
Just because I took today off from work, I made a quick video clip of my light here.

http://youtu.be/J6qUTy9huQw?hd=1

so, it always flashes like that when you're not "on" the brake? 

That is distracting and would be annoying IMHO to ride behind.  I would want it to be just either "on" or "off". 

To the human eyes, the LEDs are solid.

[Chris]

It's not some cheap Ebay brake light. It's a stock.
Just because I took today off from work, I made a quick video clip of my light here.

http://youtu.be/J6qUTy9huQw?hd=1

so, it always flashes like that when you're not "on" the brake? 

That is distracting and would be annoying IMHO to ride behind.  I would want it to be just either "on" or "off". 

To the human eyes, the LEDs are solid.

must be a BMW thing or the camera, my R1 LED tail light does not show up like that on the GoPro Hero. 

[Ultra_Magnus]

It's not some cheap Ebay brake light. It's a stock.
Just because I took today off from work, I made a quick video clip of my light here.

http://youtu.be/J6qUTy9huQw?hd=1

so, it always flashes like that when you're not "on" the brake? 

That is distracting and would be annoying IMHO to ride behind.  I would want it to be just either "on" or "off". 

To the human eyes, the LEDs are solid.

must be a BMW thing or the camera, my R1 LED tail light does not show up like that on the GoPro Hero. 

Yea it differnent brand leds run at different freqs. Also frame rate you are running on the camera can make a difference (60fps vs 30fps)

[Greg]

There's not much for me to add to this discussion other than to say this. Always remember that the law considers motorcycles "motorized vehicles", with most of the laws that apply to cars applying to us as well.
Watch the video (or imagine any scenario you want to for purposes of this example) and imagine the motorcycles are cars instead of motorcycles. It paints a very different picture of the events, doesn't it? The law would look at both versions the same way.
Any time we are operating above the speed limit, we are operating outside the law. Given that, we are judged even more harshly by the law (and should be). Now, I'm not passing judgement on any behavior expressed in the video. Most of the old-timers here know I used to run HWY 95 at a much faster pace than what's shown in the video but I always kept it in the back of my mind that if I f*ck up, it's on me.

Several years ago I organized a ride that turned out to be quite large. I "lead" the first group of 6 or so riders and we were wicking it up pretty hard. 2 in my group passed me and sprung out ahead at even a faster clip. It wasn't long before they crashed due to an unforeseen event in the roadway. This "unforeseen" item in the road wasn't breaking the law. The crashed riders began to berate the "cause" of the accident (the other item), when in reality a court of law would place all the blame on the motorcyclists.

We have very little room for argument if something unforeseen happens when we are operating outside the law. (That's where the term "outlaw" comes from)

10% Outlaw,
Greg

[Chris]

10% Outlaw,
Greg

100% Outlaw,
Steve

fixed those typos for you buddy

[tk]

lol wut

I'm surprised nobody is comenting on the pass on the right in the second video. Once in the twistys passing on the right is a faux pas in my book. I usually say to pass only on the left when I organize a group ride. Maybe this particular rider couldn't get slowed in time to stay behind Mike, which suggests he may have been following to close.

[Deplorable, thank you!]

lol wut

I'm surprised nobody is comenting on the pass on the right in the second video. Once in the twistys passing on the right is a faux pas in my book. I usually say to pass only on the left when I organize a group ride. Maybe this particular rider couldn't get slowed in time to stay behind Mike, which suggests he may have been following to close.

Passing on the right is a no no in any scenario.......But I think it was let slide because none of the "regulars" on here need that reminder.
 Picking apart these videos and pointing out the countless things done wrong seems futile to say the least--the main topics;
 following distance
 speed for skill level level (only touched on)
 and skill level at all
seem to have been covered well (perhaps beat to death?? if that really can happen)

[Chris]

The passing on the right, looks like another example of riding to close. IMO