I think it would just inflame the issue of the hatred towards motorcycles and thinking that motorcyclists are wreckless, by joe public, without actually doing anything to reform bad behaviors on bikes or make riders any safer....

 My comment is more directed at the followers, not at the lead bike being "aggressive" with their passing. Regardless how passive or aggressive the lead bike decides to get by traffic, the following bikes need to allow room for that bike and themselves (should they decide to follow through at the same time). All too often far too many of the "followers" just jump on the band wagon and blindly follow around traffic putting their safety and the safety of others at risk-including that lead bike. One thing one must consider, that lead bike can pass (solo) at will, nearly anywhere, nearly anytime-- a group of bikes cannot do this (this does not mean I advocate or support seeing a 20' hole 3 cars up and making that pass to leap frog past traffic, but lets say you are behind 10 cars, spread out, traveling at 55 in a 55 and you want to run 65, and there are openings of say 50' (I doubt you would see bigger as people are stupid about following too close) I could see the lead bike jumping past 1 or 2 vehicles at a time until they leapfrogged past all the vehicles--the problem would lie with multiple bikes trying to follow and fill those same tiny 50' openings.......first off a 50' opening isn't enough for safety period-once you decide to pass and jump into that hole, now it is only about 22' between you and both the vehicle in front of you and behind you---
Does anyone actually think this is safe or that they could stop if the vehicle in front of you slammed on the brakes?
Do you think that vehicle behind you could stop before running you over?

Anyways-there is also the case where, the lead bike is going for that 50' opening in their efforts to leap frog past that line, and suddenly in the mirror there are 3 or 4 bikes coming with them (all blindly following into that tiny 50' opening) I can tell you right now someone isn't going to make it in there......You have acceleration and decelleration factors, multiple bikes don't pass as one unit, then you have 6' long by 2 1/2' wide vehicles jockying to "squeeze" together--this scenario can push the lead bike to suddenly have to change plans of going into that tiny opening they planned for and now make a run to try to get past the entire line or at a minimum up to the next 50' opening (considering now they are likely in WOT pass mode, that is going to be a tough pass to run nearly triple digits and slow back now into that 50' hole up ahead)---yes this would be aggressive passing, but what I often see.

 So just consider allowing the leader to pass on their own and you pass on your own, unless it is actually clear where multiple bikes can pass.
RIDE YOUR OWN RIDE, but be cognisant of other riders and how what you do affects their safety and decisions.

 I am talking group riding scenario, not necessarily rush hour traffic or riding with some "stranger".--Rush hour scenarios have their own rules and while I have and will ride in them (unwillingly and certainly not for fun), I certainly am aware the risks to my health are greatly increased during this time. I will give hang gestures and even brake light a car following me too closely, drift back increasing my following distance too......If someone is stupid enough to try to fill a 100' gap I leave, I have no problem pacing them until the hole is closed forcing them into  having to brake and fall back behind-that always gets their attention- couple that with my explecitives and I usually have them following with a little extra distance. Just don't blindly assume they will brake, many times they will just push over anyways forcing you to move out of their way of be hit......( a fist through the window or boot to the door doesn't prevent this) Then you are best off to fall way behind as clearly they could care less about your safety

 I think mine would be that 718 mile day with Joel and Chris?? But I have 3 that are especially memorable.

 Yes Kim I do realize it was likely as much or more the fault of those damn men you were with---Don't worry I have good payback in mind for them...You I just like to harrass a little....LOL

The best part for me was ;
not being there and having my bike used to set a greasy pizza box on........

Yes kim I will forever haunt you with this....When is that man of yours coming over to detail my bike like he said he would, for his atonement?

 I figured the (blase) non chalant attitude kind of went without saying...........but Ray put it to words very well.

That may well be one of the best posts I have read on the forum amongst a few very good posts.

  I thought I would revisit this thread, since 8 of the top ten "viewed" are about rides, and 2 have to do with crashing and safety.

Part of the "talk" on this thread about "members" crashing....

Not to nitpick, but a few of the "members" who crashed haven't actually joined a mn-msta ride, ever. The rides they crashed on were from those other forums. They have screen names on those other forums.

I would hardly call thier crashes a mn-msta "member" crash.

If I were to go out on one of my customers rides who are mnsbr members and crash, would that count against mnsbr or mn-msta? I mean I have a screen name on both forums (hell I think I even have a screen name on ZG) but I am only active on mn-msta..There is a definate distinction, which is glossed over by many.
In my book it doesn't count against either, I am riding and responsible for my own riding not some organization or forum.........no people I have not crashed !
I will see a few of you on Sunday.

FWIW (I like rays little hit at the end...)

I would hardly call them a member at all for that matter, a name on the list of members, does not make one a "member.
Participation makes one a member.....


So many "members" on here do all their posting and riding on those other forums. They are members there, not here, in my book.



*** Just so I am not misunderstood (cuz I often am)- I full well understand the distinction between a "new" member who actually participates  (albeit limitedly since they are "new") compared to someone who has an account and user name but doesn't participate, regardless if they have any posts or even a few posts..
 And YES GREG--I speak for myself as I always do !!***

 Just so as to not clutter up that beautiful posting of examples I so carefully posted.......


2 of these members I have not ever ridden with, and based on these tires pictures- I doubt I ever will.

There Everyone knows my perspective, and it may not be very PC, But I definately would not have allowed them on any ride I organized.....and I would have made certain to not be in the group if they did join someone elses ride, after many a harsch word for them.

But I am a Hit them on the head with a hammer kind of person.