mn-msta.com
General Category => General Banter => Topic started by: Ray916MN on May 26, 2011, 09:16:16 AM
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Comments?
http://youtu.be/CbTZkZTYkaM (http://youtu.be/CbTZkZTYkaM)
Personally, right, wrong or indifferent I think about this scenario every time I pass on double yellows or at elevated speeds....
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I do also, there are lots of people like this "out there". I met that guy (or his red-neck cousin) in Arkansas a few years ago and I did nothing to him, but just happened to be on a motorcycle. It's hard to argue with a car or truck while on a bike...
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It would be cool to find out if this guy went to jail or not. Was in Ar last fall and one of our boys buzzed a car pretty good. The guy followed us into a parking lot and chewed our asses out, my guess we had it comin. But he didn't try to kill us at least, only the buzzer had somethin to say to the guy the rest of us kept our mouths shut. Just like this guy in the video prolly wasn't this motorcycle that pissed him off, so what can we do when we are ridin these things in someone elses back yard? Myself, unless it turns into a do or die pass (which will happen from time to time on twisties) I will always go by slow enough so the person I'm passin can see a friendly wave I'm givin them. I just feel if you acknowledge people, they will be far less apt to get pissed off cause YOUR havin fun.
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I don't have time to review the video as I'm at work, but a group of us had a negative experience similar to this in Arkansas last year as well. It is discussed here:
http://mn-msta.com/index.php/topic,380.0.html (http://mn-msta.com/index.php/topic,380.0.html)
My quote:
"A little follow-up story on this day of the trip. We rode State Hwy E north from HWY 60 near Winona, Mo to HWY 106. We then jogged over to HWY 19 and had a wonderful time, thanks for that tip! While we were headed north on State Hwy E (about the width of a nicer “lettered” road in Wisconsin, comparable to CTY P for example) we came upon a large gravel dump truck moving along at a decent clip, (50-55mph?). I happened to be in the front and passed him first. I thought he seemed to edge a little into my space as I passed him, but dismissed it as just chance.
As Tony and Jared passed him he edged farther and farther into their space as each one passed, clearly trying to spook (or worse?) them as I guess he didn’t like us passing. I’m not prone to violence and haven’t been in a fight since the age of 12, but that angered me to no end.
Given that we were in meth country (Southern Missouri is one of the worst in the country) and I had no idea if he was armed, I’m glad sensible thoughts overrode the anger I was feeling. For a moment I really wanted to ……. >:(
Anyway, be careful on State Hwy E
Greg"
*EDIT* WHOA, nasty scenario. At about the 2 minute mark he passes that church. I would have tried to stop there. Having witnesses would have hopefully prevented the truck driver doing anything felonious. Scary stuff.
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I will always go by slow enough so the person I'm passin can see a friendly wave I'm givin them. I just feel if you acknowledge people, they will be far less apt to get pissed off cause YOUR havin fun.
Agreed. Slowing (somewhat) and giving a wave goes a long way, I try to do this. Also something to consider ..... almost every car we pass now has a cell phone in it. Drivers will call the popo if upset enough.
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Begs to ask the question of how many riders "carry" while riding. What if the mouth breather would have pulled a weapon rather than what looks like a tire iron..
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All I can say is if a red neck is pullin a gun on you and you start wavin a gun, he will shoot you long before you even start thinkin to pull the trigger. Just think that if someone already has a gun on ya don't give him a reason to kill you.
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You have to watch out for stupid !
You have to watch out for "pissed off" !
You have to watch out for just about everything !
This scenario is one time where a "group ride" is definately on your side, you have numbers and you have witnesses
^ If someone is "pullin a gun" on me-I wouldn't even consider "wavin a gun" as some sort of threat back-I think if you are going to "fight back" you had damn sure better just start shooting until you have no ammunition left or they are no longer any threat-if you decide to face threat with threat.
Typically best to avoid that sort of confrontation as it won't end well for anyone involved.... IMO, if someone pulls a weapon, you should expect they are willing and able to use it and react accordingly.
As far as that video-I think the title is just some extremists point of view crying wolf, the guy was likely trying to "block" the bike from going by. I highly doubt he was intending bodily harm or death or to cause a crash, he likely was tired of idiots passing him at high speed, likely cutting him off a time or two and mis-judged the closing speed or passing rate- how he drove after the bike was by, well that was even more stupid and wreckless than the opriginally weave over into the left lane. ( he even made some mention of being tired of them sportbikes running him into the ditch or something to that affect.......) glad to see in the end it appears cooler heads prevailed from this escalating further.
Today I had Gramdpa Fred pull right out in front of me at one of Apple Valleys million stoplights-I had to panic stop ( I was only going about 25, but was already into the 4 lane intersection) . 200' later I pulled up to the next stoplight about 2 car lengths behind him in the next lane-he rolls down his window and shouts back to me "sorry, I didn't see you" I decided to pull up next to him and have a "polite" exchange of words. I think he genuinely was sorry and didn't see me until he was already in my lane, doesn't excuse what he did, but sometimes they just don't know.
A few days ago there were 4 cruisers all with their obnoxiously loud exhuast and whacking the throttle continually at the stop light (no doubt to keep their junk running) anyways I was right behind them in the car, and 4 pick up trucks were in the right hand lane-well first truck accelerated fast enough to keep the bikes next to him-second truck was only a couple car lengths behind, other two maybe another 100' plus and nose to tail-these dumb bikers go 3 wide trying to "race" the front truck to the next light (maybe 250 yards ahead) well they couldn't get there yet one of them cut off the truck (middle bike) and the truck locked all four tires (tire smoke and I could hear the screaching tires) well then the biker slowed (I assume to allow his "buddies" to get ahead of the truck) so the truck is already riding the brakes but the bike is slowing further (so from my vantage point I would guess maybe 10-15' between front bumber and rear tire) The other two bikers start yelling at the truck driver about tailgating their buddy.--fast forward about 15 seconds and those 200 yards, we are all at the red light, one bike in the right turn lane, 2 bikes split the lanes and yelling at the truck driver and then the fourth biker parked in my lane (left) right in front of me and right behind the cars his "buddies" were next to yelling at the truck driver, and he is looking to get off his bike. Thankfully the light changed green and the truck was able to drive away without incident- but clearly these idiots and these types of actions are one of the many reasons JOE PUBLIC has a bad image of motorcyclists. I was siding with the truck driver and would totally of backed him in this scenario, even if I would have had to knock that parked bike over to stop their stupidity.( I already had my seatbelt off and was ready to get out if need be) There are so many stupid idiots out there and they come in all shapes and sizes.
Be careful out there and remember to be on the lookout for any and all dangers.
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Scary mess! Anyone know what happened in the end? ???GJ
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I don't know what ended up with that, but I have to say there is NO WAY I would be sticking around to have a chat with that guy. I have had this happen before and I just stay on the gas and hope that if I do get pulled over, the cop believes my side of the story "guy tried to run me down, I bolted, he is chasing...this ain't a game, this is my life."
Forget the stop sign, just slow and go it. Do not give the guy a chance to hit you.
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This is all over the internet. http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=pickup+driver+tries+to+kill+motorcyclist&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8 (http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=pickup+driver+tries+to+kill+motorcyclist&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8)
That, plus the fact that this guys license plate # is in the video means that he is going to be in a world of hurt. If the cops don't do anything to him I'm guessing that there will still be some major vigilante justice coming his way...
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For this reason I never blow past people even on country roads. I may be doing twice the speed limit coming up behind them but I slow down and pass them with a little wave to avoid pissing them off.
I'm not that worried about violence but more so the idea I have that 3/4 of the rural population is buddies with the Sheriff and I don't want Old Farmer Joe calling his cops friends on me and having them have a speed trap setup 5 miles up the highway....
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Aways wave at farmer Joe, good PR
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Looks like all parties are enjoying the country air.
You want to break a law, go ahead. If others get upset, don't be surprised if they break a law in return.
You don't like their action and feel that it is excessive, so what.
You are not the only one allowed to break a law. Both of the drivers should cool off a bit, but at least they both got a chance to express their opinions thru actions.
MC riders are not the only people that want to express their street styles.
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All I can say is wow. If it was me, I wouldn't be inclined to ask myself what was in that truck driver's mind. I'd interpret it as him trying to kill or certainly injure me severely. I would then act accordingly.
I see this chap's behavior as confirmation of the biblical and legal injunctions against procreation too close within your own gene pool.
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Huh...
The guy that did the filming has some interesting comments:
http://forums.13x.com/showthread.php?p=3554243#post3554243 (http://forums.13x.com/showthread.php?p=3554243#post3554243)
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I'm surprised by "Slow moving vehicles are allowed to be passed on a double yellow."
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yeah I doubt that is true.( slow moving vehicles allowed to be passed over dbl yellow) And I am sure we aren't getting the whole story anyhow.
The filming rider claims it was hot and they didn't feel like waiting for the cops to show after they called them?
He claims no arrests or tickets?
He says they aren't at all interested in the double yellow pass but want this truckdriver off the road permanently before he kills someone (hey if that were the case they'd have in custody already and there would be a court date set up....don't you think-it isn't like they couldn't have found him-liscense plate and all)
Oh the truck wasn't the drivers....but some sportbike ran his mom off the road, thus the exceeding anger towards sportbikes (I'd be pissed too, but pretty unreasonable to take that anger out on every sportbike.imo)
When you read some of those other forums, very lenghty "debates" over right and wrong etc-it is abundantly clear that many many members of society have a very poor image of motorcyclists, especially "crotch rockets" and most of these people were motorcyclists themselves.....something to think about
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if I had been the guy on the bike doing the video I would have been worried about that four wheeler coming off, the way the truck was driving...
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When you read some of those other forums, very lenghty "debates" over right and wrong etc-it is abundantly clear that many many members of society have a very poor image of motorcyclists, especially "crotch rockets" and most of these people were motorcyclists themselves....
Excellent point.
Sobering, too.
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I'm not surprised by the video. Being a motorcyclist and a person who lives by the roads where people from out of town like to go fast, I can see both sides.
On my cycle I try to pass reasonably. Acting like Joe Rocket and almost dragging a knee and flying by vehicles in a double yellow can be irritating. It doesn't warrant a death sentence, but it might get annoying day after day. People in the country assume a general sense of peace and quiet, and cycles flying by their driveway at speed is probably upsetting.
I ride my bicycle on many of the same roads people like to ride their motorcycles fast on. I've been buzzed, had throttles blipped as they pass, etc. I've seen milk trucks and crotch rockets completely in my lane coming around a blind corner. I often think about my line on a bike and hope someone isn't coming the other way taking a corner too hot.
The bottom line I guess is that the street ain't a track. The motorcycles in the video sure weren't obeying the speed limit, and passing a slow moving vehicle on a double yellow might be okay. But you have to be wary of others around you, especially country boys in pick-ups.
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I ride my bicycle on many of the same roads people like to ride their motorcycles fast on. I've been buzzed, had throttles blipped as they pass, etc. I've seen milk trucks and crotch rockets completely in my lane coming around a blind corner.
When riding in rural areas I wave at serious looking bicyclists after I pass (well over in the lane or in the oncoming lane if there is visibility). As a bicyclist. does this make any sense? I have always wondered if they think I am nuts. (I wave at farmers on farm equipment, all other bikes, many cars that I pass - I am trying to by us some good will).
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I've never understood why some motorcyclists seem to have the need to pass someone close? Many times on a ride with other people I'll watch people pass a car and they pass really close to the car and blast by them when they don't need to. If you're in a car and have never driven a motorcycle, I can see where it would tick you off and quite frankly, there shouldn't be a need for it. Can't think of any situation where you need to pass another vehicle, even another motorcycle, that way. If you're doing it because you don't have much room to pass because another vehicle is coming, maybe you should hold off passing until the road is more clear.
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I've had guys in Wisconsin try to block my pass. Once on my bike and another time in my Vette. I've got the finger probably 5-6 times and seen others in my
group get the finger a few times. This sounds like a lot but remeber, I have been riding for decades.
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No comment on the video, but I have to say that I am amazed how many nice drivers you meet on the road. Whether it's the farmer on his tractor giving you a friendly wave, or people pulling over to let you pass (which happened to me the very first time in Minnesota recently, but seems to be standard etiquette in places like Arkansas). And yesterday up north an oncoming pick-up moved almost into the shrubs on his side on the (wide enough) gravel road to protect me a little from his dust cloud. Amazingly considerate guy.
Honestly, if I was trying to earn a meager living from tilling my fields, and had those unproductive city dwellers on their noisy bikes going by all day, I'm not sure how friendly I'd be.
I guess bottom line is it takes a little judgement how much liberties you can take in any given situation. Live and let live seems a good rule of thumb on the road...
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"BROOKSVILLE -- A Pendleton County man has turned himself in to authorities following issuance of an arrest warrant for a May incident on Kentucky 22 in Bracken County.
On June 9, Gary L. Hudson Jr., 22, notified Bracken County Sheriff Howard Niemeier he would be turning himself in when he returned to the state; he did so at about 4 p.m., June 10, police said.
According to Niemeier, Hudson lives in Falmouth, but traveled from Fort Bragg, N.C., to surrender.
According to officials, Hudson is considered "past military" having completed his reservist obligations in April; he was moving from Fort Bragg, police said.
On May 22, Hudson was allegedly involved in an incident involving two motorcycles which were traveling on Kentucky 22 at the same time as Hudson was driving a truck.
Hudson was videotaped swerving across the center line at one cyclist as he attempted to pass the truck Hudson was driving. The action appeared to be deliberate to the motorcyclists who followed the truck to an intersection where a confrontation included calls to police to report the incident.
Hudson has been charged with two counts of wanton endangerment and was taken to Mason County Detention Center.
He was released from MCDC Friday.
Niemeier said he anticipated Hudson being in Bracken County District Court today.
According to Niemeier, officials are looking into whether to file any traffic citations against the motorcyclist, who is seen in the same video, crossing the center solid yellow line before and after the incident.
Posted in Local on Monday, June 13, 2011 10:00 pm Updated: 5 pm. | Tags: Gary L. Hudson Jr., Howard Niemeier, Fort Bragg, Kentucky Route 22, Motorcycle, Law_crime, Road Rage "
In my opinion, if you charge the truck driver you have to charge the motorcyclists as well, otherwise it is selective enforcement of the law in my eyes.
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In my opinion, if you charge the truck driver you have to charge the motorcyclists as well, otherwise it is selective enforcement of the law in my eyes.
I agree. Both should be charged with whatever laws they violated.
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+1
Fair is fair.
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The truck driver has been sentenced.
BROOKSVILLE | The truck driver caught on camera swerving at a passing motorcycle on May 22, on a rural Bracken County road, was sentenced to prison on Thursday.
Gary L. Hudson, 23, of Pendleton County, entered a guilty plea on Nov. 18, in Bracken Circuit Court to an offer from the Commonwealth's Attorney Office.
He was sentenced Thursday to two years in jail on each of two wanton endangerment counts, 90 days in jail for menacing and a $100 fine for reckless driving. The sentences run concurrent for a total of two years, court officials said.
In the incident, caught on a camera mounted on one of two motorcycles, Hudson is seen driving a truck which enters Kentucky 22 ahead of the motorcyclists and drives in the same direction. As the lead cycle attempts to pass Hudson on the left, Hudson appeared to purposefully steer into the lane and nearly forced the motorcycle off the road. The motorcycle with the camera continued to follow until all three vehicles stopped at an intersection and a verbal altercation with threats ensued.
Hudson is in Mason County Detention Center awaiting transfer to a state prison facility.
Read more: http://www.maysville-online.com/news/local/article_051d0ae6-32be-55a3-8c37-f0aee97a0bae.html#ixzz1gx4AFf9m (http://www.maysville-online.com/news/local/article_051d0ae6-32be-55a3-8c37-f0aee97a0bae.html#ixzz1gx4AFf9m)
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All right.
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Vince, remember the guy in the UP last fall? Same kinda crap.
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The article should have also did follow up on the motorcyclists..........I think the whole deal is blown out of proportion and just a bunch of hype and propaganda mostly by idiot motorcyclists who want to inflame the issue and cry out trying to justify their actions of riding like idiots...it is all over the web.
Again at a minimum the lead bike should have been charged with passing on a dbl yellow and speed....Charge one--charge all
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Again at a minimum the lead bike should have been charged with passing on a dbl yellow and speed....Charge one--charge all
Agreed. But there is still a large discrepancy between passing on a double yellow (petty misdemeanor) and "wanton endangerment" and "menacing" (felonious). The former is a crime against the state , the latter is a crime against person.
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I hope motorcyclists everywhere take a lesson away from this. Pick and choose your passing wisely and with care. Joe Public just doesn't understand our selfish need for a clear road in front of us.
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The article should have also did follow up on the motorcyclists..........I think the whole deal is blown out of proportion and just a bunch of hype and propaganda mostly by idiot motorcyclists who want to inflame the issue and cry out trying to justify their actions of riding like idiots...it is all over the web.
Again at a minimum the lead bike should have been charged with passing on a dbl yellow and speed....Charge one--charge all
The rider in the following bike has posted a couple of times over at WERA about the situation. He didn't mention any consequences for him and the other rider but seemed like a pretty level headed dude. I know at first the cops weren't worried about his speed or violations given the driver's behavior, but that may have changed since the story got some legs.
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Also worth mentioning, some jurisdictions don't view a double line cross as an egregious violation of the law. In some places, you're within the unwritten Mayberry rules, provided you are passing something much slower and within care. I was stuck behind an overloaded pickup in Missouri and the cop behind me made an impatient gesture for me to get around the guy during a solid double yellow. Talk about waiting for the other shoe to drop, I was sure it was a gotcha situation but he was just as sick of being behind this guy as I. For all we know, the officer on record could have been a rider and felt it was more dangerous to ride behind a local with ATV's casually strapped on back.
Now Wisconsin, I can affirm you will get a ticket. Even if you went around a cement truck that came to a dead stop in the middle of the road. I would have fought it, but knew I wasn't going to win that one in Buffalo cty.
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Yes I remember and so does D. We went back to talk to that guy and he was an ass hat for sure. I have had this happen a few times. And that guy was going slow just to piss us off.
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"In some places, you're within the unwritten Mayberry rules, provided you are passing something much slower and within care. "
The truck shown in that video clearly isn't a "slow moving vehicle" worthy of someone claiming some mayberry rule...
If they are unwritten, how does one know they apply? devils advocate
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You don't know, nor should you assume anything. I was only bringing up a possible reason why the focus was strictly on the pickup driver's behavior by the Po and not on the riders violation. He/she might have simply blown that off as "I would have done the same thing."
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"there is still a large discrepancy between passing on a double yellow (petty misdemeanor) and "wanton endangerment" and "menacing" (felonious). The former is a crime against the state , the latter is a crime against person. "
I don't believe for a minute that the guy actually intended to put the motorcyclists in the ditch or the tree. So I also don't believe it was "wanton endangerment" and "menacing" atleast not of a felony type.....---what he did was foolish and stupid, dare I say idiotic, but it is no worse than what the bikers did.....(they all drove across the double yellow multiple times, they all appeared to be speeding and the video biker was atleast as menacing as the truck driver when he - still wearing all his protective gear- approached the driver of the truck while he was still in the truck)
Guy got the wrong jury members.......I would not have convicted on those charges.
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"there is still a large discrepancy between passing on a double yellow (petty misdemeanor) and "wanton endangerment" and "menacing" (felonious). The former is a crime against the state , the latter is a crime against person. "
I don't believe for a minute that the guy actually intended to put the motorcyclists in the ditch or the tree. So I also don't believe it was "wanton endangerment" and "menacing" atleast not of a felony type.....---what he did was foolish and stupid, dare I say idiotic, but it is no worse than what the bikers did.....(they all drove across the double yellow multiple times, they all appeared to be speeding and the video biker was atleast as menacing as the truck driver when he - still wearing all his protective gear- approached the driver of the truck while he was still in the truck)
Guy got the wrong jury members.......I would not have convicted on those charges.
Well, like you admit. The prosecuting attorneys don't have to convince Lloyd, they have to convince the judge (or jury).
....the "menacing" charge was undoubtedly for stepping out of the truck holding a gun. Seams like the correct charge to me.
And if you think the bikers where at least as idiotic as the truck driver, then I wonder how you can stomach riding with us as those infractions are pretty tame compared to some things a lot of us are guilt of.
but I'll let you have the last word, as is your want. Oh, wait ...... :)
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I don't believe for a minute that the guy actually intended to put the motorcyclists in the ditch or the tree. So I also don't believe it was "wanton endangerment" and "menacing" atleast not of a felony type.....---what he did was foolish and stupid, dare I say idiotic, but it is no worse than what the bikers did.....(they all drove across the double yellow multiple times, they all appeared to be speeding and the video biker was atleast as menacing as the truck driver when he - still wearing all his protective gear- approached the driver of the truck while he was still in the truck)
Guy got the wrong jury members.......I would not have convicted on those charges.
I would convict. It's my opinion the truck driver was trying to make the rider crash, without leaving his own mark on the scene. The way he was driving suggested to me that he was willing to put his own life at risk in order to achieve his goal
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....the "menacing" charge was undoubtedly for stepping out of the truck holding a gun. Seams like the correct charge to me.
GUN, really.....I must have missed that being in any of the new articles or reporting......seems to me after being yelled at and confronted by a helmet wearing motorcyclist in his face before he even got out of the truck....a motorcyclist who had "backup" , so the guy was out numbered.....Well he got out of the truck with a tire iron ready to defend himself if need be....I don't see him going after the biker or threatening to use the tire iron at all......It actually appears he is making a call of his own while they are busy yelling at each other and tempers were all raised...But of course everyone views things differently
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....the "menacing" charge was undoubtedly for stepping out of the truck holding a gun. Seams like the correct charge to me.
GUN, really.....I must have missed that being in any of the new articles or reporting......seems to me after being yelled at and confronted by a helmet wearing motorcyclist in his face before he even got out of the truck....a motorcyclist who had "backup" , so the guy was out numbered.....Well he got out of the truck with a tire iron ready to defend himself if need be....I don't see him going after the biker or threatening to use the tire iron at all......It actually appears he is making a call of his own while they are busy yelling at each other and tempers were all raised...But of course everyone views things differently
my mistake. I thought what he had in his right hand when he got out of the truck was a gun. it does appear now to not be a gun.
I'm done in this thread. argue to your heart's content, Lloyd
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I think the whole deal is blown out of proportion and just a bunch of hype and propaganda mostly by idiot motorcyclists who want to inflame the issue and cry out trying to justify their actions of riding like idiots...it is all over the web.
One thing Lloyd, the driver plead guilty in a plea deal for that two year sentence. For an incident supposedly "blown out of proportion", seems he wasn't going to roll that dice at a judge or jury trial.
I tried to find some rationality in your argument. I only saw one double yellow crossing by one of the bikes, while Kentucky Gary proceeded to not only try risky cornering with a loaded pickup, he actually crossed both sets of wheels completely into the oncoming lane on a curve. If a small econo-box happened to come along from the other direction, it would have been game-over for that family.
Your argument has merit in one aspect though. Notice the first thing out of Kentucky Gary's mouth was about a prior incident with a "crotch rocket". I've said it before.....a rider's actions may ricochet right onto the next rider to come along. Everyone has to keep this in mind when they perform an illegal or dangerous maneuver thinking they will never have contact with the cage driver. Rage has no boundaries with some people.
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That what the guy told me and Denyse in Michigan. That other bikers come through town to fast even tho we weren't. So that's why he was trying to run us off the road.
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Lloyd you mentioned the biker passing by crossing the double yellow lines and speeding. As for the speeding part isn't it ok to increase your speed to pass another vehicle as long as you slow back down? I don't think the biker did, I'm just asking?
As for the double yellow I don't know the laws about it being ok to pass on them or not in what states, etc.. but what about the fact the truck driver did it multiple times including on dangerous corners where there could have been oncoming traffic. The truck driver could've not only tried to run a biker off the road (which I beleive he did try to do given how far over he went) but killed or injured some other innocent people. I can see why the focus was on the truck driver and not the bikers. It was clear the bikers were just trying to pass him and he was being a total douche about it. If i were a cop and seen that video I would've given the bikers a break too in this situation given the severity and reckless driving exhibited by the truck driver. Just my .02 ;D We all have our own opinions I guess but wouldn't that be something if we were all together on a jury like this! LOL