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General Category => General Banter => Topic started by: T.W. Day on January 12, 2011, 05:22:16 PM
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I'm playing with an idea for an early spring Geezer with A Grudge column. I need data; soft, hard, or totally bogus. The survey is at: http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/7JK2TJP. I'd appreciate as many entries as possible.
thanks,
Tom
Thomas Day
Minnesota Motorcycle Monthly Magazine
http://www.motorbyte.com/mmm/
http://geezerwithagrudge.blogspot.com/
thomas@motorbyte.com
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Took the survey. Keep up the good work with MMM.
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Thanks, Tony. Good to hear from you.
Tom
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Done! Funny, I was just telling someone that I wasn't missing riding and then I took your survey!
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Question 10 made me chuckle.
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Done.
If the wording of the ice section of question #7 was changed from 'possibility' to 'likelihood' then it would change my answer. I won't ride if I think it is likely there will be ice on the road, but a possibility would not keep me off the bike. As an example. if it rained overnight and the low was below freezing, then very little chance I would ride the next morning. If I was touring the Rockies and the runoff crossing the road might be icy, then it's an acceptable risk to be managed accordingly. BTDT.
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Question 10 is beautiful!
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Question 10 made me chuckle.
Me, too.
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Done.
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I'm with you on the ice. There is a huge difference between "likelihood" and "possibility" and I decided on the second as an indication of fear/caution. So far, out of 118 entries 70% have said that the "possibility of ice" is enough to keep them off of the bike. That's true for me, unless I am somewhere and need to be somewhere else and the bike is the only way back. Getting in and out of Alaska in June means riding on some icy roads, but I can't say I enjoyed it.
Even with all the places I posted, it's turning out to be a non-representative poll. 94% of the respondents "always" ride with a full-face helmet and 38% own adventure touring bikes. I think I only managed to attract the real 1%'ers.
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So far, out of 118 entries 70% have said that the "possibility of ice" is enough to keep them off of the bike. That's true for me, unless I am somewhere and need to be somewhere else and the bike is the only way back.
So, how do you answer that one, Tom? Do you lie? ;)
I wanted to lie and say I always wear riding pants and motorcycle boots, but I've ridden to town and back in the last few years wearing jeans and hiking boots. And until now, I hadn't thought of all the BRC demos I've done in lightweight pants and a long-sleeve T-shirt. So I unintentionally lied on the question about always wearing an armored jacket. Which mean I also lied on question 10.
[...] 38% own adventure touring bikes.
Is there a generally accepted definition of "adventure touring bike"? Where's the line between dualsport and adventure touring?
I'd call an R1200GS an adventure touring bike and a DR650 a dualsport, but what about a 1997 F650?
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I always wear a full face helmet as this is all I own, even though I have a couple.
I always wear gloves, jacket, helmet and boots (sometimes just over the ankle motorcycle boots) - but often not pants on shorter trips. I'm just a tad lazy.
I have ridden in the past in below zero with a snowmobile suit on and after it has snowed but won't do it anymore. Thus, I answered "no" to ice and to below 32 degrees. It just gets too cold without electrics unless I know it is going to be warming up a bit.
It would be interesting to compare answers with those that live in southern California. They actually talk of "riding season." When is it not riding season in LA?
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Fun survey, thanks for posting this.
I've always enjoyed MMM whenever I've picked it up, usually at Midwest Cycle.
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I ended up writing question 10 because I was fuzzy on my own answers and because I thought it was funny. Yep, I said "yes" on the lying and even wrote myself a lame excuse. Now that you bring up the MSF gearless riding, I realize that I lied twice, at least. At least I brought the armored jacket to the BRC (since I ride there), so I had one on the premises. ;-)
Dual sport and adventure touring blend for me, so I stopped differentiating after the 250-750cc size. I call my Kawasaki KL250 an "adventure touring" bike at least as much as I refer to it as a DS. I suspect most of us might call the DR650 a DS and a KLR650 might often get tagged as "adventure touring." Some of the entries used 10 to complain about the categories and that is giving me all kinds of inspiration for the article. The lack of a "sport touring" category flamed on at least three folks. I am completely clueless on how sport touring is different from touring. For me, adventure touring has to include at least a few thousand miles of dirt. Most GS BMW's would not meet that standard.
As for the California "season," I discovered Aerostich in 1983 when I moved to SoCal from Nebraska. Spring 1983 was very wet and slightly cooler than normal, so I went looking for wet weather riding gear. At Beach Yamaha and a pretty good sized bike gear shop, I asked about rain gear and was asked, "Why would you ride in this weather?" I found Aerostich in a bike magazine and bought my first Roadcrafter (I don't think it was called that, then). I can still fit into that suit, but Andy says I look like an over-stuffed sausage when he sees me in it.
Thomas Day
Minnesota Motorcycle Monthly Magazine
http://www.motorbyte.com/mmm/
http://geezerwithagrudge.blogspot.com/
thomas@motorbyte.com
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I, too, do not understanding the distinction between sport touring and touring. The only difference appears to be whether your bike has some sport bike credentials. One could argue that sport touring involves gong places via the most twisty roads, but this has nothing to do with the type of bike.
As a separate point, I have trouble thinking of slab riding as "touring" in any sense. This is just getting somewhere.
Adventure touring requires a lot of dirt roads, preferably seldom traveled. It isn't much of an adventure if the roads are commonly used and well maintained, although more of an adventure than riding on a freeway.
I had not considered rain in the context of a riding season. I think of temperature. It is in the 70's in LA right now - time to ride. :)
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I don't see temperature as an issue in SoCal. It's never colder than 40F, so all year is riding season. The only time I didn't commute on my motorcycle between 1983 and 1992 was when I was commuting on my bicycle. In Minnesota, there are folks who can make the same argument, but I"m not them.
Websters says,
Touring
1: participation in a tour
2: cross-country skiing
Not particularly helpful. I really like "just going somewhere" for pavement traveling. All I get out of the "sport touring" designation is either a sportbike with bags (Ducati) or a regular touring bike with sport plastic and a more aggressive riding position (ST100). We have this labeling crap in music too. It's for the marketing people and the suckers who care about marketing.
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All I get out of the "sport touring" designation is either a sportbike with bags (Ducati) or a regular touring bike with sport plastic and a more aggressive riding position (ST100).
This seems to cover it.
I suspect those that make a big deal of sport touring are probably the same people that claim they have a sports car after buying an Audi S4 or BMW 3-series.
What did the people that emailed you about sport touring say?
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:P "What did the people that emailed you about sport touring say?"
"Apparently you don't care about sport touring." And so on.
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Due to problems with Survey Monkey, I had to move this survey to Google Docs (thanks Chris).
You'll find it here: https://spreadsheets.google.com/viewform?formkey=dFdTRjVMYnFTcW1OU21PTC1BRmRNM2c6MQ
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The difference between sport touring and touring? I think the difference is related to what type of roads each group likes to ride.
Sport touring folks like to ride the twistiest bits of pavement they can find with scenery a secondary consideration if a consideration at all.
Touring folks like to ride the most scenic roads they can find with twisties being a second consideration or in some cases something to avoid.
The commonality is both groups like to ride bikes with a bit more focus on comfort, as opposed to performance and like to take multi-day trips covering hundreds if not thousands of miles.
Every once in a while a pure touring rider will show up at an MSTA event and complain that the route is too twisty and challenging to be fun for them to ride.
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I am completely clueless on how sport touring is different from touring. For me, adventure touring has to include at least a few thousand miles of dirt.
It's obviously a subjective topic without any clear-cut definition, but for me adding "touring" to any riding style implies covering a long distance. You kind of suggest that with your qualification on adventure touring. So generally speaking, my own personal classification would be:
Touring = Long Distance Cruising
Sport Touring = Long Distance Sport Riding
Adventure Touring = Long Distance Dirt/Off-Road Riding
Of course, this greatly depends on how you classify the base riding styles and even how you would define "long-distance".
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Every once in a while a pure touring rider will show up at an MSTA event and complain that the route is too twisty and challenging to be fun for them to ride.
Do you remember that time I showed up on my Goldwing for a Slimy Crud or Rockton or something like that, and I could not keep up and you had to come back and find me.