mn-msta.com
General Category => General Banter => Topic started by: tk on July 28, 2010, 01:56:06 PM
-
On our last MSTA ride we had to make an unplanned fuel stop for one bike in the group. This happened again in a different group.
This is a totally unnecessary delay and also causes discomfort when it is hot. PLEASE people make sure you have a full tank at the
start of the ride! Superhawks excepted.
-
Coming from someone who gets bad gas mileage, I know what it's like to think your running out of gas when your not. You invision yourself stranded on the side of the road. But I also know to fuel at every stop, no matter how short. It's the riders responsibility to know the limits of your bike and when you should fuel.
-
Good points so far....especially that it is the riders responsibility to know their fuel limits. I've ran out of fuel with every bike I've owned at least once (most of the time on purpose) just so I know how far I can go when the light comes on.
My GSXR for example...I know when the light starts to flash I can go generally 30 miles until it goes solid...once its solid I better find fuel in the next 10-15 miles or I'm pushing!!
I also know depending on my riding pace that I get between 135-165 before the light starts to blink. I’ve gotten as much as 200 miles out of just over 4 gallons on that bike which surprised me being a liter bike!!
-
PLEASE people make sure you have a full tank at the
start of the ride! Superhawks excepted.
So, you're saying Superhawks shouldn't top off before the ride?
hehe... Just kidding, Tony. I know what you mean.
Brent
-
The "other" unscheduled fuel stop only took 2.3 gallons to fill, so I am pretty sure that bike could have easily made it the 27 miles to Pepin without that stop, fuel light on or not.
according to OEM specs it holds 4.1 gallons.
But yep, waiting and having to make unscheduled stops puts a serious damper on the fun factor.
Come on folks, let's not single out riders.
How about we just say, "Show up for rides with a full tank" and leave it at that.
-
Or ride a bike with a 7.5 gallon tank.......before you make fun of me, remember I am the one hauling the roadside tools and first aid kit.
I still laugh at the time a bunch of us filled up at Fountain City, except a bumblebee colored bike who shall remain namerogerless. Then he ran out of gas about three miles short of Nelson and had to be bailed out by a guy mowing his lawn.
-
Just to drag this thread out longer than it needs to be:
What takes time is the chat sessions during gas stops. In my perfect word, assuming I was dictator, gas stops would be only long enough to fill up on fluids and empty fluids. :P Let's chat at lunch.
I personally get in a psychological state of mind (a riding "groove" if you will) that get's broken with a 30 minute gas stop. Although I enjoy everyone's company, I'm with ya' to ride! 8)
Dictator G
-
If I was dictator the world would be perfect but I like confusion.
I run my cars and trucks out of gas to see how for I can go but, on the motorcycle you know when the light comes on or when you hit reserve how much gas is left so you Can adjust your speed to get the gas mileage to make it.
-
I like to stop about 100 miles most bikes can easy make that and it allows for the filling up and draining of fluids about every 2hours, which in the hot is very needed I don't want people to get dehydrated that would lead to much longer stops.
I agree with Lloyd, all bikes with shorter then the scheduled stop ride should be in there own group, maybe leave 15 min ahead of the other group(s) so that they can meet up with the group(s).
If I was dictator the world would be perfect but I like confusion.
Vince you make me laugh ;D
-
I agree with what Lloyd & Greg both said about keeping stops short when there is a planned lunch stop.
I've shared the following acronym with some & I know some may make fun of me for it but here goes.
When I make a stop while riding I get "FELT-UP" which stands for:
Fuel - top off your fuel tank
Equipment - check your equipment & make changes as needed ie clean your shield, adjust bags, check your bike if you need to
Latrine - obviously this is your bathroom opportunity if you need it
Top off - meaning at the least get a quick drink of water or maybe a quick snack if that has been pre-determined to be ok
Updates - get any updates on the route or time table from the ride/group leader
Pay attention - keep an eye on the ride/group leader so you know when they are ready to hit the road again
Like I said...I'm sure some will make fun of me for this & thats fine but I also would bet some will use it as well!!
I go thru these steps whenever I stop on a ride no matter if I'm by myself or with others.
That way I make sure to hit all the things a person would need to do on a stop but time is kept to a minimum.
I think another point to clarify during the ride meeting is if gear is going to be removed during gas stops or not.
-
I think allot of this stuff settles out over time.
After everyone has ridden with each other for a while and everyone is used to route sheets gas stops and amount of time at stops are whatever each rider wants them to be. On allot of rides with familiar MSTA folks, people switch groups, break into smaller groups, form larger groups, prolong their stops or branch off on different routes. Everyone is an adult, everyone has a route sheet and everyone is encouraged to ride their own ride.
There was a forum post on Darcy's article on TWiSTAR. This is a perfect example of the MSTA, an article on a riding event, and the writer didn't even ride the event route. Darcy and a few of her MSTA friends chose to ride a different route. For me, the MSTA is not about having to keep up, ride a particular route or do stops a particular way, it is first and foremost about riding your own ride.
What's tough right now, is we still have allot of new folks coming on rides, and there is an expectation that they won't be left behind or don't want to be left behind. They aren't used to being independent on a group ride.
I'd suggest that rather than try to set rules, we might be better served by simply telling people if they want to hang out longer at a stop or if they need to make an extra gas stop and we don't want to wait for them, you've got a route sheet, see you at the next stop.
-
Stupid question, if you are not riding as a group, then why call it a group ride? I'm not trying to be an ass, but when someone tells me there's going to be a group ride, it generally means that you will ride "as a group", which means you stay together.
Should there be different terminology for a ride that someone leads as to if it is going to be a group ride or some type of free form ride?
For example, if its a ride that I'm leading, I will wait for people at major turns so people don't need to worry about getting lost. Even with a route sheet, traffic signs, highway signs can still get confusing, especially with every road having two names now, a street name and then also some type of highway or county designation. That's just the way I like to do things, others do it differently, which is fine, to each his own.
I think when someone puts a ride up they should designate whether its going to be a "free form" or "group lead" ride, this way the people looking to go on a ride can choose based on that whether they want to participate or not. Free form would be a route sheet is provided and a starting point and time designated as well as stops, but everyone can ride their own ride. I've been on those rides before. A group ride would be that a group has a leader and everyone will ride as a group and the leader will make sure the group stays together and everyone is accounted for.
I realize alot of you guys have ridden together for a long time, so there can be assumptions made that everyone understands how the ride is lead, but as things open up to new riders to your organization, I think this deserves some thought. Its really about a persons choice, but they should have all the facts before going on the ride as to what type of ride it is.
Again, no harm or ill will is meant towards anyone, just throwing this out there as something to think about when posting a ride.
Thanks for reading
-
Felt-up. I haven't seen an anagram in a long time. Mark you have been in the service way to long.
-
This is turning into a good discussion. Tony, you need to rant more often.
I have two pennies, that's all, honest. Here goes my two pennies:
Ray probably nailed my sentiment the best. But I have a more opinionated view that some of you guys are way too fixated on mileage and schedules. Doing so will doom you to constantly feel disappointed or let down because you *failed* the ride because you don't allow time for unforeseen events (like Roger running out of gas three miles out of Nelson.)
Stuff happens. It might be shortsighted for a rider to forget to top off but it happens. So do get-offs, missed routes, lost routes, encounters with LEOs, breakdowns, etc. If your ride is 400 miles and requires no time to chat at gas stops, then you shouldn't ride with people. I ride alone when I feel like ramming a 500 miler in 10 hours because I know that stopping to fuel while straddling the bike and eating a gas stop hot dog in 10 minutes isn't going to be popular with a group. But I never go into a route thinking I have to finish it by X oclock, or even finish the whole route for that matter.
The reason some of us routed a different route at Twistar was so we could get some pictures at the New Glarus Brewery, ride the 5 mile Dugway road and other assorted odd landmarks. We still rode plenty of twisties over a 300 mile route and still had plenty of time to smell the flowers too. It's really no fun to have to adhere to a strict route plan that requires synchronized watches and no chat time.
Which brings me to my last point, so I won't lose Lloyd's short memory span, some of the best rides I have been on over the 12 years in the HSTA/MSTA were not the fast, technical curve oriented rides. In the old days there were Gunflint Trail rides, Kite Flying rides, Church Steeple rides, etc that combined distances, all sorts of road textures, road orientations (curvy and straight) and plenty of social time. One of the memorable rides had us changing the route plan because VF-Jay wanted to pick some Watercress down in the Whitewater River Valley. I never heard of it, learned alot about it that day.
I'm not sure where the need to ride curvy roads at speed all day started. I know there is a need to ride that sportbike hard I guess. They had sportbikes in the past too, yet the routes were setup for mainly corny fun I guess.
-
This is turning into a good discussion. Tony, you need to rant more often.
I have two pennies, that's all, honest. Here goes my two pennies:
Ray probably nailed my sentiment the best. But I have a more opinionated view that some of you guys are way too fixated on mileage and schedules. Doing so will doom you to constantly feel disappointed or let down because you *failed* the ride because you don't allow time for unforeseen events (like Roger running out of gas three miles out of Nelson.)
Stuff happens. It might be shortsighted for a rider to forget to top off but it happens. So do get-offs, missed routes, lost routes, encounters with LEOs, breakdowns, etc. If your ride is 400 miles and requires no time to chat at gas stops, then you shouldn't ride with people. I ride alone when I feel like ramming a 500 miler in 10 hours because I know that stopping to fuel while straddling the bike and eating a gas stop hot dog in 10 minutes isn't going to be popular with a group . But I never go into a route thinking I have to finish it by X oclock, or even finish the whole route for that matter.
The reason some of us routed a different route at Twistar was so we could get some pictures at the New Glarus Brewery, ride the 5 mile Dugway road and other assorted odd landmarks. We still rode plenty of twisties over a 300 mile route and still had plenty of time to smell the flowers too. It's really no fun to have to adhere to a strict route plan that requires synchronized watches and no chat time.
Which brings me to my last point, so I won't lose Lloyd's short memory span, some of the best rides I have been on over the 12 years in the HSTA/MSTA were not the fast, technical curve oriented rides. In the old days there were Gunflint Trail rides, Kite Flying rides, Church Steeple rides, etc that combined distances, all sorts of road textures, road orientations (curvy and straight) and plenty of social time. One of the memorable rides had us changing the route plan because VF-Jay wanted to pick some Watercress down in the Whitewater River Valley. I never heard of it, learned alot about it that day.
I'm not sure where the need to ride curvy roads at speed all day started. I know there is a need to ride that sportbike hard I guess. They had sportbikes in the past too, yet the routes were setup for mainly corny fun I guess.
Kite Flying and corny fun rides have their place. Post up a Kite Flying ride and knock yourself out. I promise I won't post up afterward telling you your way stinks.
my .02 :)
PS. This exchange is exactly what is described in the MSTA article this month. Apparently I'm not along in this thinking.
PSS. The people who's opinion I care about read my pre-edited points. I've edited out the filler to lessen the drama.
-
Greg, wasn't trying to piss you off. Note your points. Maybe giving you more opinion that you wanted/needed, whatever. Wasn't my goal to be condescending one bit so sorry it came off that way.
Wasn't exaggerating one bit about the 500 mile day, straddling the bike at gas stops. It is what *I* do on my rides. Wasn't saying it was what you do.
-
Felt-up. I haven't seen an anagram in a long time. Mark you have been in the service way to long.
What can I say Vince....my 3.5 years in the military plus 17+ years in public safety has had an effect on me I guess. LOL
To follow on the heels of what others have said about the structure off rides....I'll add that I do have a way I like the rides I lead to go. But I try to make sure people know this up front so they can make a decision on if it is for them or not. I certainly don't expect others to conform to my way of leading/setting up rides though.
Up until the season of 2008 most of my rides were 3 to 6 bikes at the most, but since then I've led groups as big as 40 bikes. Of course those are two extremes but what I'm pointing out is simply that every ride is different & every ride leader does things differently.
In my humble opinion that is one of the fun things about being part of a diverse forum such as MSTA...after all variety is the spice of life as they say.
-
I already have the Turkey Ride, the day after Thanksgiving. I should really rename that one the *Watch Joe fall off the ladder putting up Christmas lights Ride* because that is clearly the popular day for this. While I could move this ride earlier in the season, the real reason for the ride is the novelty of riding through towns that have their Christmas Lights on. Plus it is truly the last decent ride of the year.
I used to have the Die Hard Ride earlier in November, which was a series of curvy roads on the north side of the cities and down the west side to Chaska. I stopped that one because it really should have been the *Lose Every One Around Elk River Area Ride* as the constant road construction made following route sheets impossible to even make.
But I decided I will have a ride in October that I have been doing every year for probably 10 years now. It involves slabs and rustic roads. It starts in Prescott, works over near Chippewa Falls then heads north to Hayward, over to Danbury then down to St. Croix Falls on Cty F. It sounds like a lot of slabbing but the roads are actually well chosen for scenery and I am usually home by 6 pm. See the "Lac Court Oreilles" ride in the old MN-Sportbike GPS routes.
One thing I really didn't intend is to come off making it sound like I was critical of the rides, the type of rides, the routes, the riders, etc. In hindsght, the point I was trying to (poorly) make is the sense of failure you might feel if a ride doesn't go as planned. The reason I brought up the variety of rides was to demonstrate the point of riding is to have fun, and accept the fact that unexpected or unplanned stuff almost always happens.
-
One of the last rides I was on, Lloyd showed me how to put an extra 1/4 gallon in just by standing the bike upright, not leaned over on the kickstand. That evtra bit of fuel got me to the next stop. I had no idea it would matter that much. Even a few more drops could get you 2-3 more miles, or at least enough momentum to coast you into town ;D
-
Stupid question, if you are not riding as a group, then why call it a group ride? I'm not trying to be an ass, but when someone tells me there's going to be a group ride, it generally means that you will ride "as a group", which means you stay together.
Should there be different terminology for a ride that someone leads as to if it is going to be a group ride or some type of free form ride?
For example, if its a ride that I'm leading, I will wait for people at major turns so people don't need to worry about getting lost. Even with a route sheet, traffic signs, highway signs can still get confusing, especially with every road having two names now, a street name and then also some type of highway or county designation. That's just the way I like to do things, others do it differently, which is fine, to each his own.
I think when someone puts a ride up they should designate whether its going to be a "free form" or "group lead" ride, this way the people looking to go on a ride can choose based on that whether they want to participate or not. Free form would be a route sheet is provided and a starting point and time designated as well as stops, but everyone can ride their own ride. I've been on those rides before. A group ride would be that a group has a leader and everyone will ride as a group and the leader will make sure the group stays together and everyone is accounted for.
I realize alot of you guys have ridden together for a long time, so there can be assumptions made that everyone understands how the ride is lead, but as things open up to new riders to your organization, I think this deserves some thought. Its really about a persons choice, but they should have all the facts before going on the ride as to what type of ride it is.
Again, no harm or ill will is meant towards anyone, just throwing this out there as something to think about when posting a ride.
Thanks for reading
Rides which are open to everyone and anyone to come on can be run in different ways.
I think everyone understands the rides run on this forum are not group rides in the sense of a MNSBR or ZG kickoff rides where everyone rides as one huge group. The rides run here are ideally intended to broken up into smaller groups of like minded, like paced riders. Over time, people who ride together figure out who their kindred riders are in a group and in my experience come to naturally know when they show up for a ride who they'll ride with. As people don't always ride the same pace or ride with the same mind set, when they feel sportier or tourier (I can refudiate with the best of them), they will also ride with different paced or different mindset riders on occasion. People switch groups at stops or on the road and some decide to go off and ride on their own depending on how they feel on a ride and who shows up for a ride. To me this is the way it should be.
When we first starting doing open rides a decade ago, there was allot of debate and discussion on how group rides should be run. People had different opinions on pace, how to keep a group together, whether passing should be allowed, and all the other stuff. There were allot of intense debates which degenerated the way virtually all intense Internet debates degenerate into a battle of who is right and who is wrong. The idea here is that the only right that counts is riding safely within one's limits and without endangering others. If you have preferences for pace, how to run a group, how long to stop at a gas stop, how often to stop, find other riders in the group who share your preferences, or invite other riders to the group who share your preferences so you'll always have kindred folks to ride with on a group ride. We see these as preferences, not rights and wrongs.
With respect to leading and being led, implicit in MSTA rides is that the organizer will be a group leader. To support people who volunteer to organize rides, we make sure to have other folks lined up who will lead other groups. This is a contrivance we are doing to accommodate people who are new to our rides. Ultimately we hope to have enough riders who have ridden with us long enough to have a feel for the differences between everyone in the group and to be comfortable leading a group, so we don't have to make sure there are folks to lead groups. There are few rides, which run this way, Rivers Ride, Slimey Crud, and Turkey Ride are examples. The preponderance of folks who show up for these rides have been doing MSTA rides for years.
As I wrote in my original response, I think allot of this stuff settles out over time.
Hope this response helps put my previous comments in perspective.
-
I don't know if this is directed at me (Ducati 999), but a quick reply:
The bike is good for roughly 90 miles before the fuel light goes on. I knew I could not make the first leg of 127 miles.
Thus, I topped up at the station a couple blocks from Beth's.
I also determined in advance that there is a Kwik stop two blocks off of the route in Fountain City and asked for a brief splash and go stop (or indicated I would stop by myself and catch up).
I was quick and we got going promptly.
I'm sorry if this frustrated others. I am also in the "let's ride" camp and don't like standing around so I get it.
Ehrich
-
This means that ride routes are often the equivalent of skiing "black diamond" ski runs. Low speed tight turns are the point, not high speed sweepers or straightaways.
Exactly.
Fast straights and sweepers are the bike, not rider. No need for a route for a high speed blast - and what's the point anyway?
On the other hand there is a place for sedate scenic rides to a nice lunch, etc. It's been clear to me from the routes and posts which is which. However perhaps this should be more explicit.
Ehrich
-
I agree with Elk and Lloyd, I enjoy the twisty roads not becuase I care to go really fast, but because I enjoy the difficulty in pushing myself a little harder. Now when I attend slower paced rides, I start to get bored. If people learned to ride a more controlled pace, you wouldn't be guzzeling the gas so much on the straight aways.
Sweepers are a lot of fun, but unfortunately they are spread out in ares that don't offer much else.