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General Category => Bike Help => Topic started by: Hope2Ride on November 30, 2011, 11:59:46 PM
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I would like to do some more track days next season. I only have one bike. It's kind of a pain to have to convert it back and forth. Would it be worth it to get a cage instead of trying to swap race plastics? Ideas? Suggestions?
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Cage will take away cornering clearance. Plus they may well not make one for your bike. And that doesn't guarantee that you wont wreck stuff anyways----I'd run the plastics you have and replace them IF you ever need to--keep an eye on egay or some of the national forums and pick up pieces here and there if you really feel strongly about having a second set laying around in wait.
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Yeah that's kinda what I was worried about with a cage although since I'm so new at it I don't get too low yet. I like your idea of looking on ebay and I'll keep an eye out on the cbr250 forum too for spare parts.
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your bike is still a pretty new model. wait till end of 2012, then look on ebay. there will be plenty of wadded up parts for you to choose from.
if you are really worried, take off all plastics and ride it ugly and naked. I also don't like the idea of a cage.
you can be too careful and crash too.
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what about sliders to minimize the damage IF something happens. I ride both my street bikes in street trim at DCTC and BIR and am willing to deal with the hassle of repair if I crash one (like I did at DCTC in '03).
https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&newwindow=1&safe=active&site=&q=cb+250r+sliders&oq=cb+250r+sliders&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=3218l11671l0l12109l17l17l1l6l0l0l266l1721l2.4.4l10l0&biw=1280&bih=579&cad=cbv&sei=4sPXTs6lIsiM2gWW7_zdDg (https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&newwindow=1&safe=active&site=&q=cb+250r+sliders&oq=cb+250r+sliders&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=3218l11671l0l12109l17l17l1l6l0l0l266l1721l2.4.4l10l0&biw=1280&bih=579&cad=cbv&sei=4sPXTs6lIsiM2gWW7_zdDg)
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^ that link says CBR250 but the picture and listing shows drill type for a cbr1000RR
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Instead of picking up additional street plastics you might want to consider getting an extra front stay, harness and gauges (maybe ducts too?), then going with track trim. I leave the upper and gauges mounted to the spare stay, then it's just two bolts and connecting the harness to swap them back and forth. Mids and lower are quick for me too since I just need to unhook the turn signals.
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I'm sure you'll be fine with a set of sliders on that bike, it's a good investment either way incase you or someone else knocks your bike over, or for a low-side.
If my bike goes down and doesn't flip the sliders prevent the engine cases from being ground away and shift levers from being broken off.... so if they protect the plastic too that's just a plus.
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I used to be convinced that sliders help, but after seeing a few accidents with sliders (the ones that stick out) on the bike and how they catch on things and can flip the bike around, not sure of their value.
I think you're much better off getting the case guards that fasten right to the engine cases, I think they will protect them but not catch on things when the bike slides. Plastics can always be repaired or replaced, but if the bike ends up flipping, you've got lots more issues to deal with.
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Some people put metal sliders on and that's idiotic, they will catch. Delron sliders "shouldn't"
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Some people put metal sliders on and that's idiotic, they will catch. Delron sliders "shouldn't"
At the bottom of the page is a reason not to buy them.
http://www.motovationusa.com/index_MVdiff.htm (http://www.motovationusa.com/index_MVdiff.htm)
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When the bike is sliding in the grass and dirt it doesn't matter what the slider is made of, if its sticking out it will dig into the softer turf and that's when the bike flips. Also, in Vince's link, you need to make sure the bolts used to fasten the sliders are designed to bend. I've seen a bunch of cheap sliders snap off frame brackets that also happen to be the engine mounting brackets (FJR is a perfect example).
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what's a case gaurd and how do they differ from frame sliders?
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Case guards fasten right on your engine case, typically harder metal or plastic and designed to protect the engine case. Here's a link to a picture, will give you some idea. http://www.rg-racing.com/RGProducts/productgallery.aspx?page=1&sku=ECS0029BK (http://www.rg-racing.com/RGProducts/productgallery.aspx?page=1&sku=ECS0029BK)
Also, R&G makes products for your 250R, I've had good luck with their products.
http://www.rg-racing.com/browseBike/Honda/CBR250R/2011.aspx (http://www.rg-racing.com/browseBike/Honda/CBR250R/2011.aspx)
Two places that sell R&G here in the USA are:
http://www.ema-usa.com/productgroups.htm?custom=1 (http://www.ema-usa.com/productgroups.htm?custom=1)
http://www.twistedthrottle.com (http://www.twistedthrottle.com)
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Interesting.... that might be the way to go
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I also need to get new tires. I read on the cbr forum pirelli sport demons are good. Who else has tried them and what did you think? I would like to do some BIR and DCTC track days. I will be riding to the track, riding on it, then riding home so I need a go all around tire.
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Are they going to be track duty only or are you going to use them for street riding too?
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I will be using them for the street more than anything but also using them on the track too.
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I ride my FJR fairly hard and I use fairly cheap 'sport touring' tires, Conti Motions, and I don't get any slip out of them riding up to their edges with 90lb/tq. I wouldn't worry too much about tire type on a CBR250, IMHO. Racers in the 70s and 80s would kill for the average street tire today I'm pretty sure.
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I would recommend the Power Pilot or the Power Pilot 2CT.
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I wouldn't worry too much about tire type on a CBR250, IMHO.
I get the "it doesn't matter it's just a 250" attitude a lot. Well it does matter to me. My bike matters a lot to me. I don't want to buy just any crap tire out there and it doesn't last or perform for shit. I may not ride it hard but I still want something decent. Do I need top of the line race tires? no. Do I need to cheapest crap money can buy? no. I just need a good all-around tire that will last.
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I never said it doesn't matter, I said don't worry. I'm assuming you're going to get a sport tire obviously, there aren't any crap tires in that category for your usage. Just sayin'...
Tire opinions are like ass holes.... you know the rest. That's why I said don't sweat it too much. One person will love a tire and the next will hate it.
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I understand what you're saying but I'm coming into this as a newbie. I can go look for tires and there's a bazillion to choose from. It's nice to have a few names in mind, it at least gives me a place to start. Either that or I need to grab Vince or Lloyd and drag them to the store with me ;D
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One person will love a tire and the next will hate it.
+1
there are a ton of variables with tires.
if you mostly ride on the track or street (you don't want a tire that is for the road, if your only using the bike on the street, and the opposite is true), Your mostly street riding with a few track days if I read your post right.
what part of the country you ride in. (Here in the mid west the roads are not as course as they are out west and Arkansas)
How you ride. (If you're one of these that rides as hard and as fast as the bike can go, you will not be happy with a harder tire)
Like I said I think the Power Pilot or the Power Pilot 2CT would be a good tire for you, the only down side is you might go through a couple of sets per year, I am not sure if that 250 will eat tires or not (your the only person I know with one).
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I just levered on something like my 5th set of BT016's. I have another set of wheels with worn out BT16's in the car which will be set 6. I get about 5k of street/track use out of them and retire them before the wear bars get to feel the pavement. I buy mine from Kyle at 2k in Richfield. The dual compound is good in that I get lots of balling up rubber at the edges at track days, but decent mileage on the middle when riding the street. I have had bad experiences with multiple Pirreli/Metzlers (same factory) and even though those may have been my fault, I just can't get comfortable riding those two manufacturer's tires past 3k miles on the fronts.
Since you know Lloyd, ask him what he has access to and recommends. I know he won't have an opinion
::)
about tires, but he may have a discount price since you helped him with his concrete project.
Front Tire 110/70-17 radial
Rear Tire 140/70-17 radial
Nope, rear BT016 not available in that size. Here are the Bridgestone choices http://www.bridgestone.com/products/motorcycle_tires/products/size/index.html (http://www.bridgestone.com/products/motorcycle_tires/products/size/index.html)
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Since you know Lloyd, ask him what he has access to and recommends. I know he won't have an opionion
::)
about tires, but he may have a discount price since you helped him with his concrete project.
:lfmao: I think he prefers to keep his opinions to himself but, I'll try to get it out of him
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I also need to get new tires. I read on the cbr forum pirelli sport demons are good. Who else has tried them and what did you think? I would like to do some BIR and DCTC track days. I will be riding to the track, riding on it, then riding home so I need a go all around tire.
I've ridden about 15,000 miles on a 2000 250 Ninja, many of those miles at DCTC, but also in Wisconsin and South Dakota and Wyoming. Pirelli Sport Demons are all I've ever put on that bike. I like them a lot. They don't last very long, but they don't cost as much as some other tires, so I don't care very much.
My Ninja has 16" wheels, so sport tire choices are pretty limited. I'm guessing your CBR has 17" wheels, but the width of the wheels will determine which tires you can use. I'd say if Pirelli Sport Demons are available in a size that fits, and I'll bet they are, give 'em a try.
Avoid the temptation to put on a wider tire because it looks cool. Stay with the stock size, or at least stay with a size that fits your wheels.
Brent
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OK, I see the CBR250R tire sizes are 140/70 and 110/70. It's good they're 17" wheels, but without looking, I'm gonna guess there aren't many radials made in sizes that narrow. Not that that's a big problem. Bias ply tires will work.
What tires did Honda put on it?
Brent
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Google is your friend - besides I posted RADIAL above ;D :P Brent, I think your green monster is still on bias tires. I wouldn't recomend using bias on Hope's because the flex is different and the Honda designers planned the suspension to work with RADIALS.
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"Will work" (I always wanted to use the Lloyd Quote button!) leaves a lot to be desired. we could set your R1 suspension to full hard and it still "Will work" but it wouldn't be the best ride in town. :-*
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Get the Brigdestone BT003RS. Track and street rated very good price too. One hell of a good tire. And they have it in your size. End of story. And I have used this tire.
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Wow & i thought i had a hard time picking out a tire . ;) I recommend the Dunlop sportmax Q2,good price & excellent grip.Like Carlson said everybody has a different opinion about tire's.
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Here's what I see about tires. When I go on rides I see Dunlops on bikes where the rider is still on his first bike and tires and has not used anything else. Those that have been around for a while and have lots of road miles are down for just a few choices and I could name then but it is always anything but Dunlops. You know they are no good when they are the most used OEM tire, cheap.
Now those BT003RS, they come in your size for one thing. I would race on these tires and would say you could win on them. Are there better tires, you bet and I have used them but these are right there on the top of choices. For the street are they my first choice for the street, no but this is a very high end street tire and for a 250 this tire will last a very long time. Any tire on a 250 will street or track. This tire when it is on your bike just siting on the bike it feels like it is sticking to the road. And the other thing about this tire is the price, you just can't beat the low price and the tire is always on the shelve or in stock some where. You can run this tire at 34, 36 lbs for the street and 30, 28 lbs for the track no trouble. I think this tire just plain does it all.
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Well, I am not anti DUNLOP like Vince, on the contrary I have about 40 customers who ride on the Q2's-many of which also do trackdays successfully on them as well ! I have ridden on them for about 9200 miles (2 sets) and thought they were damn fine tires and had no problems or issues with them. (I still liked the Metzelers better, but...)
That said Q2's don't come in your sizes, so it is a dead argument.
Pirelli Sport Demons are what I have on my 250 Ninja and have for several years-I like them fine and there isn't enough hp available to be able to make them do anything bad-I run out of cornering clearance long before I run out of tire. The same went for the Bridgestone BT45-although the profile of the Pirelli Sport demons feels much better--but yes they are both bias ply--I am not really sure this would make a significant difference at your skill level, hell the extra flex may actually improve feedback and feel......giving you more confidence in your riding abilities and the bike......
The BT003RS--I have ran one set of those on the street and I also ran a set out at dctc that I ran for about 200 miles. These are "good" tires and about the biggest fault I saw with them, they were a bit slower to warm up (on your 250 that will be problem in cooler or wet weather) and in the wet they definately inspired nothing but the thought to stay home and ride another day---for an everyday tire (if you plan to ride rain or shine, early spring and late fall) this would not even be a considered tire IMO
It appears you have very limited choices--or atleast what I would consider "good choices";
2 tires sticking out though would be;
just a simple Michelin Pilot Power-the rear is only offered in a 150-so some chassis adjustments are going to be needed-but that isn't exactly "dialed in" yet for you anyways. (One could always argue, D almost exclusively runs on this single compound tire and look how well she rides them ;-) plus in your size they are under $200 a set and a radial
--But the Metzeler Lasertecs have been incredible tires (very similar to what I raced on for over 10 years) and this would be another very good choice-however again the rear size ...well the profile would be an 80 instead of a 70... but these are about $50 more than the Pilot Powers, and these are also Bias ply (which I do not think is a bad thing in this case)---these tires are by far and away the best rain tires you can buy, short of actually buying a full on racing rain tire, so there is some added benefit besides what they offer in the dry.
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I will thirdly support that Pirelli Sport Demons are the way to go. You can't argue with the whole Ninja 250 community and their choices.
Just go with what ten thousands prior to you have gone with. It would be hard to say they are all wrong.
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Just go with what ten thousands prior to you have gone with. It would be hard to say they are all wrong.
Nope, it's easy. They are all wrong. There, I said it. HUGE GRIN ;D
If Hope was not riding a 250 Ninja, I probably wouldn't recommend anything else, but she's not. She's riding a Honda CBR250R, which is spec'ed for radials. I can't say I'd never put bias-ply tires on a bike that was designed for radials, but if there are radial tires available in the spec sizes, I'd try those first.
Which leads me to ask again: What tires did Honda put the bike at the factory? What make and model of tires are on a brand new CBR250R?
The only radials in the "proper" size I see at Dennis Kirk are Bridgestone 003 and 090. I'd be curious about the 090, since Bridgestone puts them on the same part of the race-touring spectrum as 003 (see diagram below), and the 090 is recommended for 250s and 400s. They're popular with people who race FZR400s. Maybe they have the same cold/wet characteristics as the 003. I'd be tempted to try a set and find out.
Brent
Liker of Bridgestone tires
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Honda put IRC's on the CBR250R...on the website they are billed as a sport touring tire
your attachement must be old---it is missing 3 of their current lineup tires--I have never sold or even seen a bt090, so no actual "in use" feedback but .... But it being a full on "DOT race tire" I would expect some warm up issues, especially on a lightweight underpowered bike and that would surely be even more pronounced in the spring and fall...( Not that I am anti Bridgestone, some of their tires are top notch and better than the competitions offerings)---it does appear to have more tread than an 003, so likely rain issues would be minimal...Perhaps it would be better than the oe IRC tires-perhaps not. A quick search of a couple CBR250r forums netted no good information
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Here's what I see about tires. When I go on rides I see Dunlops on bikes where the rider is still on his first bike and tires and has not used anything else. Those that have been around for a while and have lots of road miles
First bike & first set of tires, was that aimed @ me ? if so i would like to clear the air . Been riding since i was 16 have owned a few different motorcycles. I am a newbie to the forums , not a newbie to riding.
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^ It was Vince dissing Dunlop---not you.
Vince is very anti-Dunlop......That doesn't mean there is anything wrong with them, just that he doesn't like them....but I also think he hasn't tried them in a very long time.
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Which leads me to ask again: What tires did Honda put the bike at the factory? What make and model of tires are on a brand new CBR250R?
Sorry I forgot and had to check, like Lloyd said, they are IRC's.
I will be riding rain or shine so tire that's good on wet surfaces is a must.
If I go with a tire that is an 80, instead of my current 70, what does that mean exactly? Is it wider?
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Just profile or stiffer side wall. What does any of this meen if you can't tell the difference anyway? It would be the same thing if you had all the trick stuff you could buy for your bike and your ridin as hard as you can, then Vince blows buy ya in the corner on his 86 VFR like your standin still that has skinny little high profile tires. Spend the money if you can use it, none of these things will make you a better rider. Time on the bike does that.
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I do spend lots of time on my bike so I will be getting plenty of seat time in next season.
As for tires, it may not make a whole lot of difference but if one tire will hold up better and perform better, even in just rain, then it's worth it to me to spend a little extra money. I know how my current tires feel while riding and going around corners, etc for the 5600 miles I've put on them. Will I tell the difference next season with new tires? Maybe, maybe not? Tires are something I will be shopping for every year so why not learn what the different types are out there. I don't want to walk into the shop and just blindy pick any tire time after time. The only way to learn what's out there is to ask and start trying them out.
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Vince talked me into getting the road pilot 3's and so far they are very good rain tires and seem to hold up well. Lloyd mentioned the lazer tech, I have always run them on my VFR and they work very well wet or dry.
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i've loved my PP2CT's and probably will try Pilot Road 3's at some point.
a.s.
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Tires are totally personal preference, everyone rides a little different and on different roads, different bikes.....
You have a couple choices to try, You likely are not going to wear them out like Me or Vince does where we could "try" 3 or 4 different tires in a season then settle in on what we really like and stick with that for the rest of the bikes life....
I guess if were me, I would start with the Metzeler or Pirelli (but of course I am Metzeler biased)--likely the Pirelli since it actually is in the exact same size, so turn in etc will be relatively similar (barring huge profile differences)--but I think the bigger rear of the Pilot Power wouldn't be a big hinderence, but it will slow your acceleration some (as it no doubt will weigh more) yet it wouldn't be a bad choice either.
Pick one (I can get any of them, shameless plug)-none of them will be worse than the OE tires.....The Metzlers probably offer the best all around tire, and certainly the best rain/cold weather tire
The Michelin probably offers the best overall dry hot traction (if you could actually use it or not is unknown...it is pretty hard to over ride any decent tire, and all of these are pretty decent) but likely gives you the least wet traction (while still not terrible) the size thing and extra recipricating mass could be an issue, but perhaps not? One wouldn't really know until you actually try it.
140/70-----the 70 indicates that the sidewall is 70% of the width of the tire (140mm)
so 70% of 140mm is 98mm
140/80-----80% of 140mm is 112mm (about 1/2 inch)--so ride height, seat height etc will all go up by approx 1/2"
Now keep in mind not all tires are created equal----some 140's will be as small as say 134mm while others could be as large as 142mm
also some will have steeper profiles while others are relatively flat or round
"V" shaped tires turn in real easy whereas the real "flat" profile tires are much harder to turn in
So are you more confused yet...lol
Pick the Pirelli's to start-see what you think. at 5600 miles in 3 months you will wear them out before the season is over then try something else----you can't make a good educated descision without actually trying them all out for yourself and finding what you feel the most comfortable with....Mind you as you get better and can understand better what your bike is telling you-you may change your mind on tire selection, there is a learning process.
A "b" class rider will do fine on any track on Dunlop Q2's, whereas an "a" class rider would over heat them in just several laps......(just an example)
Just remember you are primarily going after a "good" street tire that can handle some track use......
GUYS IT DOES NO GOOD TO MENTION TIRES SHE CANNOT GET FOR HER BIKE !!!
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In addition to the tire being taller, check the manufacturer's web page for what size rim the larger tire is meant to fit. In some cases, going up a size (usually width) will change the profile of the tire, meaning it will turn in at a different rate. I personally don't think that the engineers at Honda got bored on the day they picked tire size and decided it would be fun to put an uncomon size on your bike (but then again, I am an engineer ::) ).
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It is a 4" wide rear rim--back in the day racers ran 160's on that wide of rim....(perhaps the SV's rim is the same width?) So I do not think any 140 will be an issue, or even a 150 if she ends up trying that PP.
Of course she does have to make sure to get the tubeless Pirelli, as they also offer that same tire as a tube type!--but it seems likely I will be getting them for her, so that won't be an issue.
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^^^ Yup you'll be getting them anyways ;D You're the only person who has done work on my bike and I'd like to keep it that way.
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Sure is a lot of talk on this forum today and my name sure is coming up a lot. That's OK. Sure is fun reading all of it. Its not that I don't like Dunlops. It's that Dunlops don't like me. They don't last very long for me and they just plain don't perform for me like I think they should. I have also had failure's as well. The last time I try one was 2 years ago.
For you Hope the thing that is going to be hard for you is that any tire you pick is going to last a long time because your bike doesn't have much power. So the tire may last you all season even with track days. I still stick to my first choice of the BT003RS. They sure work good on the track for me. I don't use them on the street except to ride the bike to the track on those tires. They sure feel good on the way there. If these tire should have a short life this may be for the good. You get to try something else and your learning curve goes up. You will start to learn what others maybe talking about. Good luck in your choice.
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Sure is a lot of talk on this forum today and my name sure is coming up a lot. That's OK. Sure is fun reading all of it.
That's cuz we love you Vince! :-* Well you know riding season is over so now that we can't all be out on the bikes... we'll I guess the best we an do is talk bikes on here. And make fun of you! LOL Thanks for the advice on the tires, I appreciate the info, from everyone. I sent Lloyd a PM about tires since he does all the work on my bike and I think I have it narrowed down. I'm looking forward to continuing to learn about my bike. ;D
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You might want to consider getting a track dedicated bike, instead of trying to swap your bike back and forth.
Non current non-competitive small racebikes (eg. FZR600) are available at around the $1K price level. When you add up all the money it will take to protect a streetbike and set it up for track use and then factor in the time and work it takes to swap it back and forth, having an inexpensive track dedicated bike may more sense. Just like it is a good idea to learn to ride on an inexpensive bike that will lose less value if crashed, the same is true of learning to ride on a track.
Of course such an inexpensive track dedicated bike will be crash experienced, which also means when you're learning and exploring the limits around the track, you won't have to worry about trashing your only bike, or figuring out how to "finesse" a claim against your insurance for damage. Forgetting about your physical health, having a cheap track bike limits the amount a crash can cost you to the price of the bike and your gear and even a crashed trackbike will have at the worst some salvage parts value. Of course used parts for an experienced trackbike tend to be inexpensive and readily available.
Implicit in track riding is having a trailer or knowing people who have space on their trailers and are willing to trailer you. Trailering for track days is a good idea, because it enables you to carry stuff which can really help make a track day more relaxed and fun (eg. pop up, lawn chair, cooler, snacks, lots of water, AC in a car is a revelation after a day of riding on a hot track) and lastly help you avoid being stuck depending on others if you crash hard enough to make it difficult to ride home.
I think there is a Ninja 250 trackbike rental deal that someone in the CMRA is offering too, and this or just borrowing someones track bike maybe another option to get some track time and figure out how far you want to go with track riding and how much you want to spend.
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So Hope ended up running Bridestone S20's.
They made it through a few trackdays and then 17,000 miles of street use. You can guess what was spooned on to replace those....yep another set of S20's, now if she could only get her fork seals to make more than about 10k at a crack.
Low (relative) horsepower and sticky (relative) tires can yield long life, even with a few top speed runs she was so fond to talk about.
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How the heck did you come up on this old thread?
Like Lloyd said I went with the Bridgestone S20's and they have worked great for me. I've been down all sorts of good and bad roads (thanks Vince lol) , caught in strong downpours and storms (thanks again Vince lol), and have even made it to the track a couple times and they have lasted quite a while. My top speed runs really aren't that fast either, most I've gotten the speedometer to is 100mph even and that was for a short distance because I use up so much road trying to get there. I wanted to know what the bike could do and now I know. Anyways my one and only complaint about the tires is they slide all over on the tire snakes on the roads so anytime I'm riding corners and run into tire snakes I get a little worried. But then again the only other tires I've had are those that came on the bike so I don't have much to compare to, maybe they are just like any others in that respect idk.