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General Category => General Banter => Topic started by: vince on October 26, 2015, 05:04:23 PM
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So what is everyone take on this.
the fans are on Rossi side.
Popularity for the four have all changed big time.
Pedrosa went down to 5%.
Marquez went down to 8%.
Jorge went down to 12%.
And Rossi. Well he went up way up to 75%.
Even Honda race director says that Marq was trying to stop Rossi championship success.
Only Pedrosa got it right. This is bad for everyone and MotoGP.
Jorge wants the championship handed to him.
Rossi is thinking about not going to the last race.
MotoGp is owned by the Spaniard's
Some thoughts.
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Yamaha's director Jarvis said this.... "So whilst, if you analyse the race in details today and you study every move that Marc did, there was nothing illegal about any single move, but I think you have to see the bigger picture and you have to question the motivation of the style of race and the way and the attempt of Marc to clearly disturb Valentino to the maximum. Finally that resulted in an overflow of frustration by Valentino and that boiled over and he made a move that was an incorrect move by taking Marc out to the side of the track. Then unfortunately Marc deicide to turn in hit the leg, that caused an incident and Marc fell off."
Race Director Mike Webb said,“Despite what Marquez said we think he was deliberately trying to affect the pace of Valentino. However he didn't actually break any rules. Whatever we think about the spirit of the championship, according to the rule book he didn't make contact. His passes were clean. He rode within the rules.
“Valentino reacted to what he saw as provocation from Marquez and unfortunately his reaction was a manoeuvre that was against the rules. It's irresponsible riding, causing a crash. So he's been penalised for that. We believe the contact was deliberate. He says he did not want Marquez to crash, but he did want to run him wide.”
No decision was taken during the actual race as Webb said he wanted to speak to both riders and watch the video replays at length.
Asked about Rossi appearing to kick-out at Marquez, causing the fall, the New Zealander replied:
“Rossi's evidence is that his foot came off the foot-peg as a result of the contact. From all the video evidence there is no clear shot that definitely shows that his foot slipped off the foot-peg because of contact or that he deliberately kicked. I don't have that as a 'smoking gun' if you like.”
Both of these guys say, that when judged "objectively", Marc did not break any rules but Vale, grew frustrated and lashed out by riding against the rules. Both of them judged Marc "subjectively" by assuming that he was deliberately doing "something" to mess with Vale within the rules.
My opinion is that these are supposed to be champions. There is no crying in baseball... Just go out there and race hard. Vale shouldn't be crying to the world that Marc is slowing him down and Marc shouldn't be deliberately slowing Vale down. This race could have been great but drama got in the way:(
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Think about this. Morning warm up Marq turned over 1 sec faster than anyone else. On the lap before the crash. the two were 2 sec off the pace. That's blocking and un sportsman like.
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From the video replays I've seen, it's true that Rossi pushed MM wide and then MM drove into VR's left side hitting his leg which clearly shows on the video as you can see his knee being pushed forward. At that time, VR pushed his knee out (as in GET THE EFF off of me!) towards MM and there was NO KICK whatsoever. Good lord, I'm SOOOO tired of seeing everyone's version of what they think they saw all over all of the different forums and the bashing that is going on however that it's hard for me to even log into FB because EVERYONE has their version. I think the scenario that MM is/was trying to deliberately sabotage the championship is a valid one and I think VR got sick of his shit. In my opinion, VR did nothing wrong other than teach the punk a hard lesson. It's my hope that he (VR) kicks ass, wins the Championship and comes back again next year and wins it again. BOOM!
What time is the race at Ray's and you can bet I'll be in attendance for this one (just need to stay off social media that day at all costs!!)
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I looked at the heli view, it looks like they were toutching and as he was falling down he pulled Rossi's foot off the peg. I'm not a fan of either, so this it what it looked like to me.
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MotoGP continues to be exciting but it's slowly creeping into drama sports (pro wrestling). Looking back to the 80's, 90's, I just can't recall the top GP or AMA riders trying to take each other out, playing close proximity head games, or dangerous retribution acts. They just raced and congratulated each other on the podium. Sorry for the old man grumping but this is distracting to the point of not caring.
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MotoGP continues to be exciting but it's slowly creeping into drama sports (pro wrestling). Looking back to the 80's, 90's, I just can't recall the top GP or AMA riders trying to take each other out, playing close proximity head games, or dangerous retribution acts. They just raced and congratulated each other on the podium. Sorry for the old man grumping but this is distracting to the point of not caring.
My feelings as well. Racing (and many other sports) at this level is entertainment, not sport. Though there is nothing wrong in enjoying it for the spectacle that is it.
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Probably the most balanced analysis of Sepang I've read. It is a very long article and avoids simple conclusions.
https://motomatters.com/analysis/2015/10/27/2015_sepang_motogp_round_up_heroes_who_h.html
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Rossi wants for others to simply pull over and let him go.
That is not the mark of a true champion!
Rossi thinks nobody else except himself and Lorenzo should even be on the grid..... well I guess that is one way to insure he gets his 10th championship, since all he has to do is finish right behind Lorenzo and the championship is his.
Rossi is a spoiled whiny little biotch and so is Marquez, but Marquez was berated and goaded by Rossi all week, why on earth would anyone not have expected Marquez to not do his talking on the track and fight Rossi hard, likely harder than anyone else out there?!?
I am not a huge fan of either, nor Lorenzo but the actions of Rossi and his on & off track bullshit......... ZERO respect for him and I hope Lorenzo walks off to a 10 second win and Rossi doesn't even get inside the top 10 and I hope he does it in the rain where Rossi is supposed to be so good and things so easy!
These guys are paid for results, and basically win or place as high as you can regardless who you are racing against- I certainly don't fault Marquez for going right after Rossi in the battle for third- I do however fault Rossi for his actions of his attempt to drive Marquez right off the track and he should have been DQ right there on the spot or at the very least Black flagged and brought in for a several minute lecture about the virtue of racing vs fighting and being a douchebag. Marquez too should have been punished-more than scoring zero points and not finishing the race
Rossi has been a great talent, but his actions and statements don't impress me one little bit and I sure hope he goes nowhere fast in the next round and if he choses to not even start- well just more proof positive of a whiny little biotch who doesn't deserve any new contracts from anyone. Not that Marquez is anything special in the same regards- he certainly has his number of on track run ins too....
Go Jorge Lorenzo!!!!!!!!!!!!! (but keep your mouth shut and let your riding do all the talking)
I would love to see a Lorenzo, Pedrosa, Marquez podium next week with Rossi a distant finish well behind the Duc's, Crutchlow and the Suzuki's
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Probably the most balanced analysis of Sepang I've read.
Thanks, Ray. A good read.
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The writer states Marquez "misjudged the timing and turned in," and somehow it was not his fault there was contact. I disagree.
While we do not know what he intended the consequences to be, there is no question Marquez actively turned into Rossi and hit him. And that he could have easily slid behind Rossi and ran for a late apex on the inside. He chose contact.
(This does not excuse Rossi's behavior, but I'm not convinced a racer running a competitor wide is punishable conduct, although clearly unsporting. On the other hand, Marquez pushed Rossi off onto the alligator teeth several times earlier, in more dangerous areas (exposed Armco), and at higher speed.)
Marquez is a very physical rider. His history in Moto2, as well as encounters earlier this season with Lorenze and Rossi are great illustrations.
The reference that professional sports are soap operas for men is disturbingly accurate. This is why I do not watch anything but the race itself. I knew nothing of the nonsense Rossi was spouting before the race and only learned of it through the race commentator.
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Speculation runs high;
linked article says Yamaha may ends its relationship with Lorenzo... I think that would be a huge mistake, he has championship contender written all over his next 5-8 year future barring any serious injury. So what if he and Rossi don't get along, punt Rossi if one has to go, he certainly does not have championship contender written all over his long term future. If Yamaha wants to shoot themselves in the foot.......... well I hate Yamaha anyways---much rather see anyone win than Yamaha
Whomever would get Lorenzo would suddenly be a contender regardless of what bike he rode. Even if he is not the best "development" rider, he still is an excellent very precise rider
http://www.autoevolution.com/news/yamaha-rumored-to-part-ways-with-lorenzo-because-of-his-attitude-in-the-rossi-case-101409.html (http://www.autoevolution.com/news/yamaha-rumored-to-part-ways-with-lorenzo-because-of-his-attitude-in-the-rossi-case-101409.html)
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Agreed.
Lorenzo is my favorite racer to watch. I enjoy his efficient, deliberate, smooth, considered style. He was an overly aggressive rider some years ago (similar to Marquez is now), but a significant penalty cured him.
And, as you point out, he has a future.
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I remember Kenny Roberts being put at the back of the grid for missing a riders meeting. That was at the Sears Point AMA National before he became ac "World Guy". He was typically pissed and blitzed through the field-leading by lap 6 and winning. I would love to see Vale do that but doubt it possible. There have been many petulant champions-Roberts,Spencer,Fogerty,Stoner,Biaggi,Russell. I happen to like Rossi and can forgive a human reaction/mistake from a man put on a pedestal by many and derided by others. Rossi's bio is a great read even if you're not a fan.
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I am a Rossi van and always have been. I was a Marq fan but not much any more. Never was a Jorge fan and don't think I ever will be. I like Pedrosa more than the last two. He got screwed out of a championship because of others. And he is marked because of the crash with Hayden.
All of these guys are very very good. You could say they ride perfectly. So when you watch that last corner you can see that Marq hit Rossi. He was the one trying to take him out or both of them.
It is very clear that Marq head butted Rossi knee. And then he leaned in harder than Rossi. Trying to take him down. And because he was going faster and Rossin was bring his leg back it hit the handle bar. And he alone went down.
My real thought here is that when you go racing you race to win. You go for first not second. You give it your very best. You don't go out on the track to stop some one else from winning. Unless you bet them to the finish line. That is what racing should be.
Honda said that Marq went out there to stop his champion ship attempt. Like Rossi said this comes down to character and to me Marq has little. Same with Jorge. With the way he acted on the podium. Thumbs down to Rossi win and leave after he received his trophy.
Marq lost his bid for the championship on his own. Not from others like he says.
Rossi told the truth about what he did. Marq lied about everything. And so did the FIM. But that was not against the rules. Character is not in the rule book.
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And the drama keeps on going.
Rossi has taken his case to the European Courts of Sports.
Rossi starting position has been suspended until Nov. 6th.
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And the drama keeps on going.
Rossi has taken his case to the European Courts of Sports.
Rossi starting position has been suspended until Nov. 6th.
Interesting.
So there are two possible outcomes he can get. Reduced penalty or no penalty.
Here's what he says he was doing: "I just want to make him lose time and go out of the line and slow down because also this time, a lot worse than in Australia, he make his dirty game no? When I go wide, wide, wide, I slow down, we almost stop and I look at him to say, “F@%K, what the f@%k are you doing?”
To win he needs to prove race direction was not properly enforcing the rules or that in the absence of a rule against what he alleges Marquez was doing that it is okay for riders to take it upon themselves to rectify the situation without being subject to penalty. Although he might argue that other riders were penalized less for similar infractions, I believe if anything the opposite has been true in the past.
I think his own words damn him. Based on his assertions that Marquez has been dirty riding for several races and race direction has been doing nothing. Either race direction has not been enforcing the rules over several races or he was getting back at Marquez for several races of within the rules riding that he thought was dirty. The net is he knows the rules better or how to enforce the rules better than race direction, or that he should be allowed to be the arbiter of what is dirty racing.
I think Vale's ego is getting the better of himself. All I see is him proving that his ego is his weakness.
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There is also this...
"According to Art. 3.4.2.2 of the FIM Road Racing World Championship Grand Prix Regulations no further appeal may be lodged when FIM Stewards confirm the previous decision of the Race Direction."
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But it does tell you to take it to the court of sport to appeal. Which is what Rossi is doing.
Interesting read the rule book. The word sportsmanship is not in the rule book. I didn't see it even once.
So you could say what Marq was doing was ok. Also the same for Rossi as well. No it comes down to the crash itself. Did Rossi really cause this. Or did Marq do this himself by turning in to sharp.
The FIM president is asking everyone to be good sportsman. Yet they don't know what it is.
I believe this is what Pedrose was saying about the rule book. To many gray areas.
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But it does tell you to take it to the court of sport to appeal. Which is what Rossi is doing.
Interesting read the rule book. The word sportsmanship is not in the rule book. I didn't see it even once.
So you could say what Marq was doing was ok. Also the same for Rossi as well. No it comes down to the crash itself. Did Rossi really cause this. Or did Marq do this himself by turning in to sharp.
The FIM president is asking everyone to be good sportsman. Yet they don't know what it is.
I believe this is what Pedrose was saying about the rule book. To many gray areas.
It doesn't tell you to take it to the court to appeal. The process is if you disagree with the FIM, you can take it to CAS. IF you disagree with CAS you can take it to the Swiss courts. Here is good summation of the situation.
https://motomatters.com/news/2015/10/30/valentino_rossi_appeals_sepang_penalty_t.html (https://motomatters.com/news/2015/10/30/valentino_rossi_appeals_sepang_penalty_t.html)
At the root of all of this was what the FIM did right or not?
Here's their explanation.
http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/224594/1/motogp-race-director-explains-rossi-punishment.html (http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/224594/1/motogp-race-director-explains-rossi-punishment.html)
Rossi admits to deliberately running wide, not to gain position, but to show Marquez that he was pissed and that Marquez should stop dicing with him. This precipitated Marquez's crash. This was considered by race direction to be dangerous riding not associated with racing for position, but associated with retribution. This is against the rules.
http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/224594/1/motogp-race-director-explains-rossi-punishment.html (http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/224594/1/motogp-race-director-explains-rossi-punishment.html)
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Yamaha just released a press statement. Commenting on Hondas choice of words. I think they just slap them in the face.
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The whole debacle is a slap in the face to the fans!
So he starts dead last, it should be interesting to see him climb through the field and how everyone treats him and whether they let him by with ease or if they actually race.
Everyone was told to race and use "sportsmanship".......... hmmm--
sportsmanship1.
[?spôrtsm?n?SHip]
DEFINITION
1.noun form of sportsman
2. fair play, respect for opponents, and polite behavior by someone who is competing in a sport or other competition
sports·man.
[?spôrtsm?n]
NOUN
1.a man who takes part in a sport, especially as a professional.
That leaves it very open to interpretation on what each person thinks is actually sportsmanship! You know some will feel moving over and letting him get to the front is the sportsman thing to do, while others may well feel the sportsman thing to do is race him hard as they do everyone else and make him earn each and every spot.......
It would mean more if he earned each spot than if they are gifted to him IMO
Whomever wins, who really cares---they have all (sans Pedrosa) acted badly and like the spoiled little brats that they are....
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Listening to Honda's press conference. They have no respect for others. They don't even know how to pronounce the name Yamaha.
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How did they pronounce Yamaha? LOL Was it a Japanese speaking?
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Yamaka.
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A bunch of completely classless Rossi fans!!!!!!!!!!
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the tv feed ended right after the race, and went to soccer. on fs1
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Yamaka! Buhuhaaaa...
I'm glad JL won. Rossi's rant is just sour grapes. He's not the fastest anymore and that's burns him inside. Only the fastest win titles.
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Look at Rossi's wonderful charismatic likable personality...talk about a sore loser the reality is---he wasn't fast enough to have run with the top three no matter where he started, he didn't win enough races this year to have earned the title....... Jorge won 7 races- he deserves to be the champion!
MotoGP News - MotoGP Valencia: Rossi blasts Marquez after title defeat
(^ this was supposed to be the link to the article for the below quotes)
“For me if you check the races of Marc Marquez in the last two years you know he always tries to overtake and minimum on the last lap. So the question is, why Marc Marquez never tried to overtake Jorge Lorenzo and never tried to make one attempt on the last lap?” Rossi replied.
“The situation became very embarrassing for Pedrosa, because Pedrosa was far [behind] and in the last laps he recovered two-seconds, which means that it is the pace of Jorge and Marquez just waited.
“And for me, he [Marquez] likes that it is clear that he helped Lorenzo, because after when he take off the helmet he is just saying it is not true. But, when he knows I will look at the television and it is clear that he helped Lorenzo, for me he is happy.”
Rossi also turned his sights on Honda: “The position of Honda is very strange. I don't know how a manufacturer can be agreed that one of its riders make the Yamaha win and try to fight just with his team-mate [Pedrosa]. This is very strange. But sincerely I don't understand.”
Speaking to the Italian media Rossi went even further, branching out his attack to include criticism of Lorenzo (for his post-Sepang comments) and the championship organisers (for not addressing Rossi's concerns after Australia or Malaysia).
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The Hills(WEB)are alive with the sound of outrage. JL was fast,did win but obviously had MM working as spoiler for several races. Hardly a clean Victory. I've followed the GP series since the early 60s and have seen huge changes and many great rivalries over the decades. I'm sad the season ended on a sour note. JL is Champion but he is no Hailwood,Ago,or Rossi.
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Rossi did not show up for the award ceremonies. I guess you could say for sure he is a sore looser. Not a way to start ending your career.
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Who'd want to go and see the Spanish lovers gloat over their coup?