mn-msta.com
General Category => General Banter => Topic started by: Tim... on April 23, 2012, 05:45:19 PM
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Just curious as to what peeps think about the line the rider on the mn-msta.com front page is taking, which I presume to be WI 95. Is this a safe line for the street?
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We all know that road very well. We all know that you can see all of the road from the bottom of the hill. Also we know that about half of the corners you can see around the next corner. An we know that it is very easy to widen up your turn when you are on the outside of a corner. The road surface looks clean but he is in the tire track where he should be. If there was no car coming from the blind side of the next corner and one just came into view he would already be straighting up and his body would not be on the center line. I thought he looked pretty good.
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Must disagree Vince, the top of the hill is blind. My question was about taking a racing line vs. a street line, what is the difference on that stretch of road, and what should we be advocating?
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i believe this horse has been beaten to death several times in the past year or two.
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Must have missed the past couple of years... Even so, it is a topic worth discussion every once in a while, don't you think?
What are your impressions, beyond the mundane?
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I was there that day of the picture so I know the corner. I really don't see this as a racing line. You must know that most bikers when they lean that their body may go over or onto the center line. This corner when your at the one before it you can see to the top of the hill I was there just yesterday. And when you are in this corner you have all kinds of time to up right the bike. This length of road is very wide for a hill so you have pretty good site lines.
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First off I have ridden behind this guy, and most of us wish we could hold a street line like he does. Second if this was Vince on a day he was feelin frisky, his knee would be over the white line on the inside of that corner.
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There are very few riders on this forum that could take that line aggressively without major risk. Is that something we want to portray?
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What risk do you see. If you didn't know the road the very next corner maybe a mile down the road. No risk.
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does anyone know how fast this guy was going? what the traffic conditions were? its just a picture. that road is about as wide open as it gets. one doesn't need to be even speeding to drag an elbow and make it look fast. so i guess it would be hard to have a logical discussion unless you had all the information present.
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I think your lookin for somethin that aint there.
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That picture is why I chose my signature....
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Would anyone care to take a stab at responding to Ian, right or wrong?
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By legal terms has he even crossed the center line?
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By legal terms has he even crossed the center line?
depends on the cop. tires no, body yes.
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By definition the motorcycle has crossed the center line. Is he riding over his head, not even close.
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Ok, I was hoping for a more thoughtful answer.
My lines, on the street, are dictated by the road conditions and my knowledge of the roads . Will cross the centerline when I have the site line, as it is, in some circumstances, the safest way to navigate a turn.
Being dogmatic to the PACE, is, IMHO, a fallacy.
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Tim,
This exact subject WAS beaten to death 2 years ago. Seams like you're just picking a fight.
If you want to split hairs, sure .... some could argue that picture isn't the most flattering a line. What's your point, to embarrass him?
I guess I could take your criticisms more in stride if you were a more active participant in riding.
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Looks like a guy having a blast is all I see and a great picture.
I probably took a thousand curves today and if there was a picture of me taken at everyone there is probably one or two that make me look like the dumbest rider in the world....
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Just trying to spark some conversation, and to quote "Great minds talk about ideas. Average minds talk about events. Small minds talk about people."
Tim,
This exact subject WAS beaten to death 2 years ago. Seams like you're just picking a fight.
If you want to split hairs, sure .... some could argue that picture isn't the most flattering a line. What's your point, to embarrass him?
I guess I could take your criticisms more in stride if you were a more active participant in riding.
Tim,
This exact subject WAS beaten to death 2 years ago. Seams like you're just picking a fight.
If you want to split hairs, sure .... some could argue that picture isn't the most flattering a line. What's your point, to embarrass him?
I guess I could take your criticisms more in stride if you were a more active participant in riding.
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+1 on a topic beaten to death
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Here's a specific discussion of the topic people had and may not want to rehash:
http://mn-msta.com/index.php/topic,359.0.html (http://mn-msta.com/index.php/topic,359.0.html)
a.s.
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Also, these threads are the ones where certain sides of long-lived arguments tend to get fired up and eventually turn passionate / un-civil, and I think if we can keep that from happening yet again, that would be great.
a.s.
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Also, these threads are the ones where certain sides of long-lived arguments tend to get fired up and eventually turn passionate / un-civil, and I think if we can keep that from happening yet again, that would be great.
a.s.
Sometimes that's the best way to gain new knowledge and/or perspective on our own riding style/skills.
While I don't want to see "civil unrest" on the forum I do agree that healthy conversation is a good thing.
Well as long as it remains just that....I do agree sometimes that doesn't happen though.
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As long as the DUMBS are catered and coddled to on this forum, no thread with any intent of being helpful will ever get any traction. You add to that, the fact that there are too many "just want to ride" attitude members and the overwhelming majority will always be of the mindset of "shut up, I am so good there is nothing you can tell me (without being offended)"or "I am good enough, I don't need to learn anything else or refresh any skills.....ever, I just want to ride to ride"
Just look at the "new" safety section......dead in only 5 days, with little there worth reading anyways.
The attitude of "I don't want to hear it because I am already so good" surely prevails--only a DUMB would actually believe they don't need to improve further or practice what they once knew.
As far as the homepage picture. It is a snapshot in time-it doesn't convey the story or show enough for an "outsider" to know the road, know the circumstances, or know anymore than seeing the lean angle, body position, lane position and make assumptions. Can you really ascertain ones riding skills by a single snapshot? I'll guarantee you this rider is a far better rider than 99% of the people who will ever see this thread.
That said- I don't think it sends the best image of what "we" (I use the phrase lightly nowadays-since clearly "we" has dwindled as the DUMBS have taken control of the attitude on the forum and the rides) represent on this forum to JOE PUBLIC.
Perhaps had his body not been on top the centerline-the picture would be the perfect grab your attention and wow me picture to portray to JOE PUBLIC. So while I take no offense to the picture, I also know the rider, know the road, ride similarly to the portrayed rider and don't view it as some DUMB on a sportbike trying to drag a knee or take "race lines"....but is it the perfect home page picture? NO. Is it a good home page picture? absolutely.
And since part of the goal Ray talked about is recruitment and public image, a better question may be;
-Does the homepage picture portray the right image to passersby viewing the forum?
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That said- I don't think it sends the best image of what "we" represent on this forum to JOE PUBLIC.
Perhaps had his body not been on top the centerline-the picture would be the perfect grab your attention and wow me picture to portray to JOE PUBLIC. So while I take no offense to the picture, I also know the rider, know the road, ride similarly to the portrayed rider and don't view it as some DUMB on a sportbike trying to drag a knee or take "race lines"....but is it the perfect home page picture? NO. Is it a good home page picture? absolutely.
And since part of the goal Ray talked about is recruitment and public image, a better question may be;
-Does the homepage picture portray the right image to passersby viewing the forum?
I actually don't think the general public thinks much about it unless they are physically right there when it happens. There probably is a better picture out there somewhere, and there probably is a better question to use as food for thought too.
a.s.
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So does "DUMB" stand for something according to you Lloyd?
Just curious due to the way it read.
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That picture is why I chose my signature....
He's over the center line, right? If so, he's not over enough for me to worry about unless there was a vehicle approaching from the other direction - and since he's not a DUMB, I assume there wasn't.
There are very few riders on this forum that could take that line aggressively without major risk. Is that something we want to portray?
My lines, on the street, are dictated by the road conditions and my knowledge of the roads . Will cross the centerline when I have the site line, as it is, in some circumstances, the safest way to navigate a turn.
Being dogmatic to the PACE, is, IMHO, a fallacy.
Ok, I was hoping for a more thoughtful answer.
Just trying to spark some conversation, and to quote "Great minds talk about ideas. Average minds talk about events. Small minds talk about people."
So you are supporting the line in the picture (willing to cross the center line) and are willing to take some liberties with The Pace, or are against taking risk? And you're here to spark conversation among a handful of active participants who respect the rider in the picture but then you question the thoughtfulness of responses... I'd like to question the thoughtfulness of the question; I unfortunately can't tell if you're asking about an Idea, an Event or a Person.
It seems like the general consensus is that this rider, on this road, at the time of the picture, which at least one person witnessed first-hand, was well in control of his bike and not behaving badly. There also appears to be general agreement that this image may not be the ideal image for the homepage due to the fact that it is possible to misinterpret the risks "we" are willing to take.
I searched for awhile last night trying to find old threads that covered this stuff and found a few. They usually start with videos posted that are much, much more worthy of inspection and thoughtful dialog than the homepage image. And there was a user "YUL" that chimed in for awhile...
a.s.
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Quote from Lloyd, Does the homepage protray the right image to passersby viewing the forum?
Of course it does, most of us think that's what we look like comin around the corner (in our minds anyway) If we are trying to attract non spirited riders it might be the wrong picture. I have been ridin with you guys for over a year now and I have not seen too many of us that don't want to look that cool goin through a corner.
I say if you want to citique someones riding, critique your own. And those that need advise don't be too proud to ask for it.
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old discussion http://mn-msta.com/index.php/topic,55.msg146.html#msg146 (http://mn-msta.com/index.php/topic,55.msg146.html#msg146)
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By definition the motorcycle has crossed the center line. Is he riding over his head, not even close.
I searched for local statutes and can't find that MN defines the tires as the definition of what is (or is not) considered to be "within the lane". Are you aware of other statutes that clarify? https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/?id=169.18&year=2011 (https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/?id=169.18&year=2011)
Without clear statute, any officer can make a determination of what is part of the vehicle.
In case there is any confusion, my original post was about the advertising value of the picture when a stated goal of this website is to attract new MSTA members. I believe that in some corners the safest way around is across the yellow (for example when there is sand in your lane). However, I don't care to cross the line when there is no reason to. I enjoy riding curvy roads and find I have a tendency to try to straighten them if I ride them too fast. My observations in group rides is that speed wins out over precision sometimes and then we tend to see the bikes hang over the yellow.
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Different strokes for different folks.
Note the 4 bikes and their following distance. Even at 40mph that is probably .3 of a second. And this is the national MSTA newsletter.
The outrage!
Harumph harumph!
*sarcasm*
http://ridemsta.com/download/stareview/currentissue/STAReview3101DIGITAL.pdf (http://ridemsta.com/download/stareview/currentissue/STAReview3101DIGITAL.pdf)
(http://i950.photobucket.com/albums/ad343/tgyeti/close.jpg)
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So you are supporting the line in the picture (willing to cross the center line) and are willing to take some liberties with The Pace, or are against taking risk? And you're here to spark conversation among a handful of active participants who respect the rider in the picture but then you question the thoughtfulness of responses... I'd like to question the thoughtfulness of the question; I unfortunately can't tell if you're asking about an Idea, an Event or a Person.
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Have ridden for many years and many miles with the rider in said picture. My intention is talk about an idea - is this a safe line.
As I mentioned, my line is dictated by a number of environmental factors; and yes it is the line I would take given the factors Vince mentioned previously.
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The outrage!
Harumph harumph!
*sarcasm*
Love the "Blazing Saddles" reference. LOL
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Different strokes for different folks.
Look at their lines though, not one of them is anywhere near the double yellows.
What is the point of throwing out meaningless numbers 40 mph and .3s - all that equates to me is 58 2/3 ft, which means what?
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My point being that you can find a myriad of photographs in the motorcycling community that exhibit less than perfect riding behavior and the world doesn't stop turning.
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Maybe they rode close together just to get the pic? Just sayin..
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Maybe they rode close together just to get the pic? Just sayin..
True... and they are riding slow and most people tend to bunch up at slow speeds. Since they have funny colors on their gear it's okay.