mn-msta.com
General Category => Off Topic => Topic started by: Ray916MN on April 03, 2012, 08:13:45 AM
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There is no accounting for taste, preferences or opinions. We do not all agree and while respect for each other and our differences is advocated, this is subject to individual interpretation and everyone has their limits.
So, what to do when disagreement and dislike evolves into hate?
This morning the "Karna" feature was turned on. This enables anyone and everyone to either "applaud" or "smite" a member's post without disclosing their identity. The cumulative total of member reactions to a user's posts is shown in their profile and in the member profile panel which shows up with each member's posts. This gives members a way to "vote" on how they feel about another member's posts, aside from posting a response to a post. It allows members to show both their agreement and appreciation and their disagreement and dislike of a members contributions (posts) to the forum. Members can use another member's Karma numbers to understand how a forum member is perceived by other forum members.
Aside from using the Karma feature to make your feelings about another member known, members can also use the "ignore" feature to ignore both posts and/or PMs from any user. As the forum PM system is unmoderated, this ignore feature is the easiest way for members to stop receiving PMs from members they hate.
This is our forum, and I hope the Karma feature helps us celebrate what we think are positive contributions and point our what we think are negative contributions to the forum. I hope members find this feature useful in keeping the forum civil and showing their displeasure when things get uncivil or disrespectful. If it doesn't then the feature will be disabled. If it does, then the feature will remain enabled.
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This morning the "Karna" feature was turned on.
Is Karna short for Karnal Knowledge? ???
I shudder at what the gods must think about us mortals trying to quantify our karma with numbers. :o
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What prevents someone from clicking multiple times (either out of malice or self-promotion) on a post? Does it lock you from clicking multiple times?
My gut instinct is that I like this idea.
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"Sorry, you can't repeat a karma action without waiting 1 hours."
Just like in real life!
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John Lennon was likely thinking of something else, but somehow what he wrote is fitting:
Instant Karma's gonna get you
Gonna look you right in the face
You better get yourself together darling
Join the human race
How in the world you gonna see
Laughing at fools like me
Who on earth d'you think you are?
A superstar? Well right you are
Well we all shine on
Like the moon and the stars and the sun
Well we all shine on
Every one, come on
Instant Karma's gonna get you
Gonna knock you off your feet
Better recognize your brothers
Every one you meet
Why in the world are we here?
Surely not to live in pain and fear
Why on earth are you there?
When you're everywhere
Come and get your share
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The walrus was Paul. Goo goo ga jube ....
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John Lennon? Wasn't he, like, some old dope-smoking hippie? Do we really want to associate with dope-smoking hippies?
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The walrus was Paul. Goo goo ga jube ....
I always thought it was Koo Koo Ka Choo...
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Huh?? Did someone say my name?? I was too busy being a dope-smoking hippie.
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This Karma thing seems kind of high school to me. Maybe a popularity contest in disguise. I just see it as increasing antagonism. It shouldn't be annonymous. Shouldn't we know who are detractors are? What criteria should I use to bash someones post? Poor spelling (yo Vince), questionable grammar, wordiness, or maybe because they don't ride my brand of bike.
I just want to be on record as opposed to this so nobody thinks I had anything to do with it.
Carry on.
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This Karma thing seems kind of high school to me. Maybe a popularity contest in disguise. I just see it as incresing antagonism. It shouldn't be annonymous. Shouldn't we know who are detractors are? What criteria should I use to bash someones post? Poor spelling (yo Vince), questionable grammar, wordiness, or maybe because they don't ride my brand of bike.
I just want to be on record as opposed to this so nobody thinks I had anything to do with it.
Carry on.
Go Tony.....lol
I was saying pretty much the same thing. Well I did add in perhaps it should be on a post by post basis instead of a accumalative total--have the total in their profile perhaps? Atleast I am in the black....LOL
It is a popularity contest in disquise. I totally agree
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This Karma thing seems kind of high school to me. Maybe a popularity contest in disguise. I just see it as incresing antagonism. It shouldn't be annonymous. Shouldn't we know who are detractors are? What criteria should I use to bash someones post? Poor spelling (yo Vince), questionable grammar, wordiness, or maybe because they don't ride my brand of bike.
I just want to be on record as opposed to this so nobody thinks I had anything to do with it.
Carry on.
Go Tony.....lol
I sent Ray a pm saying pretty much the same thing.
It is a popularity contest in disquise.
Yes in some ways it is. And popularity is important as one of the main reasons for the forum is to recruit new members.
While some may not care whether what they post is nice or not, nasty posts do more to drive away prospective members than recruit them. Being civil has its value and how civil people are is generally reflected in their popularity.
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Yes in some ways it is. And popularity is important as one of the main reasons for the forum is to recruit new members.
While some may not care whether what they post is nice or not, nasty posts do more to drive away prospective members than recruit them. Being civil has its value and how civil people are is generally reflected in their popularity.
I don't believe all members are using it in the manner in which you intended to be used. If it was strictly based on specific posts, then great. However, I believe people are using it as a way to say f*** you or I don't like this or that person. Like Tony said, it seems pretty high schoolish.
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I clicked a few applauds, then decided it has no useful application so I'm no longer going to bother. It only makes sense if it's per posting.
I'm not getting the rationale over it somehow being a recruitment tool. Would *you* join a forum simply because most people have more Applauds than Smites? It wouldn't matter to me one bit. In fact, I might view it as an "mommy moderated" board.
(Please APPLAUD me if you AGREE.) :D
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Yes in some ways it is. And popularity is important as one of the main reasons for the forum is to recruit new members.
While some may not care whether what they post is nice or not, nasty posts do more to drive away prospective members than recruit them. Being civil has its value and how civil people are is generally reflected in their popularity.
I don't believe all members are using it in the manner in which you intended to be used. If it was strictly based on specific posts, then great. However, I believe people are using it as a way to say f*** you or I don't like this or that person. Like Tony said, it seems pretty high schoolish.
I've used it on several other forums I'm on. It is not intended to be used in any specific way other than for members to be able to recognize posts they appreciate or like and ones they don't. Some people clearly use it to recognize people they like and dislike, but that's fine too. I assume people do the preceding as it would not make sense for people to applaud the posts or people they dislike and smite the people or posts they like.
Certainly there may be a high schooler aspect to Karma. At the same time one of the drivers for implementing it was this:
......
And for the 18 people that have been pming and emailing me on this one issue........Show your real support by--calling Ray, email Ray, send Roger (stinger), Ray (Ray916Mn)or Tony(tk) - you know, the forum leaders your complaints and suggestions via PM.....Or simply post them up,,,,,,,,Stand up and take a stand, offer a solution or something ---Do something that actually benefits the club or truly shows your support for an idea.
( ps.. I love you all---but I have work to do that does not revolve around making the forum better 24/7....I fight on my own behalf, thank you for your behind the scenes support. Now show more in front of the action.)
*I see a few of you have stood up and been accounted for---I appreciate it.*
Following this post, I, Tony and Roger received zero PMs regarding the topic and I don't recall seeing any other posts in support of the position Lloyd was championing. OTOH, I'd be surprised if the 18 Lloyd was referring to aren't using the Karma system.
When you agree or disagree with something or dislike or like something, expressing it appears to involve too much effort and risk for many people to be public with how they feel. The Karma system makes it easy for people to provide some feedback even though it may be non-specific and general. I'd like to know how many of the 18 Lloyd referred to in his post, have used the Karma system to make their feelings known publicly and why they would do this, but not elect to post or PM on topics of interest to them. This isn't meant as a specific challenge to the 18, it is simply meant as an example of what the Karma system allows, which prior to the Karma system there was a member need not being met.
Of course, if the Karma system becomes somehow wildly out of kilter and ridden with high schoolery, we can always just turn it off, but given all the PMs I get in which people tell me about what other forum members think, but never say on the forum or PM me with, I think we need to provide a vehicle for members to simply and anonymously let their feelings be known.
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I clicked a few applauds, then decided it has no useful application so I'm no longer going to bother. It only makes sense if it's per posting.
I'm not getting the rationale over it somehow being a recruitment tool. Would *you* join a forum simply because most people have more Applauds than Smites? It wouldn't matter to me one bit. In fact, I might view it as an "mommy moderated" board.
(Please APPLAUD me if you AGREE.) :D
And SMITE Paul if you DISAGREE ;D
It is not that the Karma system is a recruitment tool it is a way for someone new to the forum to get some context about how the forum feels about the poster. Do they generally agree, respect, like the poster (allot more Applauds than Smites) or is it a mixed bag (nearly equal Applauds to Smites) or is that no one seems to agree, respect (Allot more Smites than Applauds) or that the forum has no opinion, one way of the other (very few or no Appluads or Smites). It also enables someone watching a thread to possibly get an idea of how the thread is going. If it is a debate is a person on one side of the debate gaining Applauds while the other person picks up Smites?
Of course none of this is 100% or to be taken as the gospel, but it is some indication and more indication than silence, and is public unlike all the PMing and behind the back stuff which unfortunately seems to happen allot.
So imagine, someone comes on the forum and start posting about hitting triple digits, dragging their knees on the street, how they like to rip up the streets and how if you ain't crashing you ain't riding fast enough. While of course, some are going to post that they don't think this is the right way to ride on the street, many others would probably smite the poster. On the other hand, if someone posts up about organizing a ride for new riders, something which everyone seems to be supportive of, maybe the poster would get allot of applauds. Over time I expect, based on what I've seen on other forums, the use of applauds and smites for the most part will become as simple as these examples and support providing people with a better idea of what the forum feels about topics and/or members.
Of course, being who we are, I expect we'll have deep discourse and debate and disagreement on this feature and of course, if the feature doesn't work well, we'll just turn it off.
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I don't mind the changes, and I think the approach that the Safety sub-forum is trying might be great, so don't take this as any sort of criticism for sure.
If the Karma isn't post-specific (I misunderstood that this was its purpose) I imagine it will simply point out which people have strong personalities, loyal friends and devoted enemies. I don't mind having easy feedback to curtail some of the less civil posts, but I'm not going to be placing much stock in an unknown person's (or group of people's) opinion of people I may or may not end up liking until I have the chance to get to know them, you know, IRL. The people I already know I already like, even if our riding styles, religious beliefs, moral standards, political bents or favorite roads don't mesh perfectly or our ages, races, socia-economic status, and orientations aren't identical.
For the record, I believe I posted at least twice in general support of the conversation Lloyd, and you in the opening post of that thread, were trying to have:
http://mn-msta.com/index.php/topic,1005.msg10639.html#msg10639 (http://mn-msta.com/index.php/topic,1005.msg10639.html#msg10639)
http://mn-msta.com/index.php/topic,1005.msg10694.html#msg10694 (http://mn-msta.com/index.php/topic,1005.msg10694.html#msg10694)
http://mn-msta.com/index.php/topic,1005.msg11094.html#msg11094 (http://mn-msta.com/index.php/topic,1005.msg11094.html#msg11094)
Furthermore, haven't many "new" rides and organizers sprung up this spring, perhaps in a direct response to a call for more involvement and diversity?
a.s.
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I'm going to smite everybody that partakes in this system since I think it's dumb... uhhh wait a minute...
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Ray you said it was a way for members to like or dislike a post. All Im seeing is the cumulative number, no specifics. For example I have 3+ so is there away for me to know which 3 posts of mine were liked?
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Ray you said it was a way for members to like or dislike a post. All Im seeing is the cumulative number, no specifics. For example I have 3+ so is there away for me to know which 3 posts of mine were liked?
Yes it is not post specific, but if you're following a thread along you can tell when someone posts something which is disliked. You see their smite count go up, or when they post something which is liked their applaud count goes up. This assumes the poster is actively posting in a single thread and not posting all over the place, and it assumes that people are not "catching up" on Karma (at present I suspect allot of people are actually applauding and smiting based on non-current past threads).
So for example, I picked up another smite in the last 30 minutes or so, and have pretty much only been active in this thread since the late afternoon. I think it is fair to conclude that someone didn't like what I posted to this thread.
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I think the intent is good but in order to provide meaningful feedback, it would need to be post specific.
As it stands, anyone who is so inclined could daily smite an individual. That individual would end up with lots of negative feedback, but it could solely be one person throwing the stats while everyone else opts out. It's false information.
Someone dislikes me but I have no idea why. Hmm??? ??? Not sure how that's helpful.
OTOH if I posted something controversial and immediately got a dozen dislikes specific to my post, I might reconsider posting something of a similar nature in the future.
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I think the intent is good but in order to provide meaningful feedback, it would need to be post specific.
As it stands, anyone who is so inclined could daily smite an individual. That individual would end up with lots of negative feedback, but it could solely be one person throwing the stats while everyone else opts out. It's false information.
Someone dislikes me but I have no idea why. Hmm??? ??? Not sure how that's helpful.
OTOH if I posted something controversial and immediately got a dozen dislikes specific to my post, I might reconsider posting something of a similar nature in the future.
Agreed. There is nothing stopping an individual from repeatedly "applaud"
or "smite" an individual or even themselves (create a false account). My initial support has waned.
"Like" or "Dislike" posts individually.
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There is nothing stopping an individual from repeatedly "applaud"
or "smite" an individual or even themselves (create a false account). My initial support has waned.
"Like" or "Dislike" posts individually.
I share the above sentiment with Greg; just wondering if the forum software has the functionality of rating individual posts... :-\
From a sociological perspective, it is interesting how the karma points are accumulating, though. Lloyd seems to be about as polarizing as the abortion debate. :D
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There is nothing stopping an individual from repeatedly "applaud"
or "smite" an individual or even themselves (create a false account). My initial support has waned.
"Like" or "Dislike" posts individually.
I share the above sentiment with Greg; just wondering if the forum software has the functionality of rating individual posts... :-\
From a sociological perspective, it is interesting how the karma points are accumulating, though. Lloyd seems to be about as polarizing as the abortion debate. :D
Unfortunately there is no ability to track this by individual posts, or thread. There are other systems which are similar but I have yet to find one that is not global in nature.
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From a sociological perspective, it is interesting how the karma points are accumulating, though. Lloyd seems to be about as polarizing as the abortion debate. :D
It's not interesting to me to see how the smite points are accumulating on posters who are not controversial. I am worried they are going to feel bad enough about it to leave because they are going to feel like they have little support (or wonder who among their peers has an envious attitude toward them.) Is this feature worth it so much to risk that??
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Can someone create a fake account for "MN-MSTA karma" so we can all smite it out of existence?
It is just as useless as the popularity crap that goes on in junior high school.
Smite away!!!!
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Maybe the karma system would be less controversial if it only offered applauds and no smites. (I'd be surprised if it's configurable that way). I think we've all seen forums that offer the ability to "thank" the poster for a specific post with a single click. The list of "thankers" follows the post. Those forums don't offer one-click ability to dislike posts, and Facebook doesn't allow one-click negative feedback, either. The ability to leave negative anonymous feedback so easily seems to be the main complaint with the current system.
I wonder who decided to use the word smite instead of something like boo-hiss or dislike or frown. Smite just sounds so harsh.
smite (smìt) verb
smote (smot) smitten (smît´n) or smote smiting, smites verb, transitive
1. a. To inflict a heavy blow on, with or as if with the hand, a tool, or a weapon. b. To drive or strike (a weapon, for example) forcefully onto or into something else.
2. To attack, damage, or destroy by or as if by blows.
Brent
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I agree that it doesn't really provide any useful feedback. As I stand now I have 4 people (or someone clicking applaud more than once) who like me or something I have posted and one who does not. But I don't know who or why so there's nothing for me to do with that information. I don't think its gonna hurt anything but it doesn't help a whole lot either. It will be interesting to see how it all plays out.
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I actually agree with Lloyd (kind of) on this one. It does seem to be a kind of popularity contest rather then a referendum on a user's posts and is of limited use.
On the flip side I see what Ray was trying to do. I think a forum mod like this one might be more useful?
http://custom.simplemachines.org/mods/index.php?mod=1890 (http://custom.simplemachines.org/mods/index.php?mod=1890)
You can disable negative votes if you choose, you can toggle on the option to see who voted how, and it's PER post. So you're essentially voting a POST up/down, instead of voting a PERSON up/down. More useful IMHO.
NOTE: I found that mod in 5m of googling, not necessarily recommending that exact mod be dropped in. Just illustrated what I consider a more useful concept of non-anonymous input based on posts.
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I believe he wanted to keep it anonymous so people who would otherwise be afraid to speak up could like or dislike something. If it changes to become non-anonymous then I would imagine less members will participate. I still don't like it, unless we know what posts are being liked or disliked it doesn't help.
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You can disable negative votes if you choose, you can toggle on the option to see who voted how, and it's PER post. So you're essentially voting a POST up/down, instead of voting a PERSON up/down. More useful IMHO.
I think the mod recommended by Ben does exactly what most people seem to want. I would "Like" Ben's post if I had that option.
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From a sociological perspective, it is interesting how the karma points are accumulating, though. Lloyd seems to be about as polarizing as the abortion debate. :D
It's not interesting to me to see how the smite points are accumulating on posters who are not controversial. I am worried they are going to feel bad enough about it to leave because they are going to feel like they have little support (or wonder who among their peers has an envious attitude toward them.) Is this feature worth it so much to risk that??
I think this reflects the issue. You may think certain people's posts are fine, but others may disagree.
The issue is how to run an open forum and maintain civility without censorship. The fact is we don't all agree. The next issue is what to do when we don't agree? Some may simply be silent, some may speak out, some may call for action to either drive or institute rules which force agreement. Anonymity and simple thumbs up, thumbs down helps provide members with an alternative action to take when they disagree. It is somewhat like being in crowd hearing a speech. People applaud what the like and boo what they don't. No individual arguments, fights, confrontations, just a simple way for a group of people to provide feedback.
I actually agree with Lloyd (kind of) on this one. It does seem to be a kind of popularity contest rather then a referendum on a user's posts and is of limited use.
On the flip side I see what Ray was trying to do. I think a forum mod like this one might be more useful?
[url]http://custom.simplemachines.org/mods/index.php?mod=1890[/url] ([url]http://custom.simplemachines.org/mods/index.php?mod=1890[/url])
You can disable negative votes if you choose, you can toggle on the option to see who voted how, and it's PER post. So you're essentially voting a POST up/down, instead of voting a PERSON up/down. More useful IMHO.
NOTE: I found that mod in 5m of googling, not necessarily recommending that exact mod be dropped in. Just illustrated what I consider a more useful concept of non-anonymous input based on posts.
The mod Ben found looks good. Unfortunately it is not cleanly compatible with the forum version we are running. I've seen a few SMF forums get taken down by hackers and we are on the latest production release of forum software to minimize the potential for this. Unfortunately 3rd party mods like what Ben found are generally not kept current with forum software. It appears that the mod has been implemented by some forums running the same version we are running, but it takes some editing of the mod code and is not problem free. Not sure I can or want to do this. Karma was implemented because it is an integral feature of the forum software we use, not a 3rd party mod. This means it is always supported and compatible with every new release of forum software.
Lastly, even post by post voting doesn't eliminate the potential for people to simple down rate posts from people they dislike solely on the basis of their dislike for the person. There is no system in the world which can force people to vote based on a set criteria. In any voting system, voters can vote however they like using whatever criteria they want. You can take the high schoolers out of high school, but that doesn't prevent them from acting like they are in high school.
I think the notion that there is any forum feedback system which can not be subverted or perverted from its intent is putting an overly high standard on the idea. I'm not sure elections for public officials can meet the standard of voters voting based upon the intent of choosing the best qualified person for public office. People vote for many different reasons, some of which the founding fathers probably would have found unfair, surprising, bizarre or incomprehensible but nonetheless not a reason to abandon voting. The idea is simply to provide members another means of providing public feedback to other members of the forum.
Anyhow, I appreciate the feedback. Keep it coming.
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The issue is how to run an open forum and maintain civility without censorship.
Well there ya go, enforcing your preferences (civility, free speech) on the rest of us...
;D
I understand why you don't want to do the mod that Ben found. But do you agree that it's a better set of features than the karma system?
karma chameleon - culture club (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wn4iIXiT6XY#)
Desert loving in your eyes all the way
If I listen to your lies would you say
I'm a man without conviction
I'm a man who doesn't know
How to sell a contradiction
You come and go, you come and go
Karma karma karma karma, karma chameleon
You come and go, you come and go
Loving would be easy if your colors were like my dream
Red gold and green, red gold and green
Didn't hear your wicked words everyday
And you used to be so sweet, I heard you say
That my love was an addiction
When we cling our love is strong
When you go you're gone forever
You string along, you string along
Karma karma karma karma, karma chameleon
You come and go, you come and go
Loving would be easy if your colors were like my dream
Red gold and green, red gold and green
[ From: http://www.elyrics.net/read/c/culture-club-lyrics/karma-chameleon-lyrics.html (http://www.elyrics.net/read/c/culture-club-lyrics/karma-chameleon-lyrics.html) ]
Every day is like survival
You're my lover, not my rival
Every day is like survival
You're my lover, not my rival
I'm a man without conviction
I'm a man who doesn't know
How to sell a contradiction
You come and go, you come and go
Karma karma karma karma, karma chameleon
You come and go, you come and go
Loving would be easy if your colors were like my dream
Red gold and green, red gold and green
Karma karma karma karma, karma chameleon
You come and go, you come and go
Loving would be easy if your colors were like my dream
Red gold and green, red gold and green
Karma karma karma karma, karma chameleon
You come and go, you come and go
Loving would be easy if your colors were like my dream
Red gold and green, red gold and green
Karma karma karma karma, karma chameleon
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Hmmm, game-on Lloyd for the highest negative karma count. I like the new feature :o
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Hmmm, game-on Lloyd for the highest negative karma count. I like the new feature :o
Coming from the guy who is quadruple negatives as apposed to positives.....Should I send everyone the rest of the PM's you have been sending?
GTFU
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^ ahhh c'mon, surely you understood the sarcasm.
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I think that something like the karma system has a place on the board. I can definitely understand Ray's desire to have a board that is a positive face of the MSTA to the MC community without having to feel like he has to invest a lot of time and energy on watching the board and modding threads. A couple of possible changes I would propose:
1) Instead of being able to applaud or smite someone on an hourly basis, make it daily. This will minimize the impact that a persons haters, BFFs, or sycophants can have on their rep. For example, if there's someone who is pissed off at me, they can smite me up to 12, 14, 18 times a day (or 24 if they are really industrious). Limiting this to once daily will give my rep a chance to be influenced by what I actually post up vs. just being smashed by someone who dislikes me personally (maybe having nothing to do with anything I post), not to mention that I'd hope my hater would grow bored with smiting me once daily with little impact to my overall rep.
2) Eliminate the smite button. The only feedback that can be given is for positive, beneficial posts. This may help to eliminate some of the high school/junior high popularity contest vibe that some are feeling. I would not add this without adding #1 for the reasons I mention above.
JP
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Is there a feature to enable a 12 hour "auto-ban" for someone that clicks more than 5 smites in an hour?
Perhaps for some cooling off time?
;D ;D ;D
I think others should consider if someone is so petty as to anonymously smite you over and over in a passive aggressive way attempting to upset you... that the action should not even be acknowledged.
The internet seems to give some people a very weird sense of pseudo-courage that melts away when confronted face-to-face about these petty grievances. Just sayin’…
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Just do not think a Karma system is the way to go. For example Ray, look at the S1000RR forum, which has worldwide membership, why do you think there is no Karma system? If the issue is moderation, then enlist moderators - not some gimmicky juvenile popularity contest!
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How about we have just a like button. If you like what there are saying you click it if not you can't do anything. The way it should be. All positive.
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1) Instead of being able to applaud or smite someone on an hourly basis, make it daily.
That can be done. I think daily is a good interval.
2) Eliminate the smite button. The only feedback that can be given is for positive, beneficial posts. This may help to eliminate some of the high school/junior high popularity contest vibe that some are feeling. I would not add this without adding #1 for the reasons I mention above.
That can be done, sort of, by calling it Jaredize, as in "I Jaredized that silly so-and-so for that post." But unfortunately, you can't turn off negative feedback only.
http://wiki.simplemachines.org/smf/Features_and_Options#Karma (http://wiki.simplemachines.org/smf/Features_and_Options#Karma)
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1) Instead of being able to applaud or smite someone on an hourly basis, make it daily.
That can be done. I think daily is a good interval.
[SNIP]
[url]http://wiki.simplemachines.org/smf/Features_and_Options#Karma[/url] ([url]http://wiki.simplemachines.org/smf/Features_and_Options#Karma[/url])
Brent, I have given you one (1) applaud for your post. lol
I wholeheartedly agree though, changing the interval to at LEAST 24 hours would cut down on some of the petty voting going on towards a handful of people. I would further suggest resetting everyone's count to zero after making said change if Ray goes that route to make it more accurate.
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...
The internet seems to give some people a very weird sense of pseudo-courage that melts away when confronted face-to-face about these petty grievances. Just sayin’…
Especially true when these people pose as someone else just to stir the pot - not my definition of courage either.
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I think that something like the karma system has a place on the board. I can definitely understand Ray's desire to have a board that is a positive face of the MSTA to the MC community without having to feel like he has to invest a lot of time and energy on watching the board and modding threads.
Well I disagree (but I won't smite you.) I have never seen a respectable forum apply this sort of mechanism and I know for a fact we have now lost one valuable participant because the system was manipulated beyond it's stated purpose. It's gone beyond an experiment to a bad idea IMO.
Eliminate the smite button. The only feedback that can be given is for positive, beneficial posts. This may help to eliminate some of the high school/junior high popularity contest vibe that some are feeling. I would not add this without adding #1 for the reasons I mention above. JP
Well, no sort of tracking of opinions should be necessary. We are (mostly) all adults here. If we can't work out disagreements by civil discussions, then we are missing out on the beauty of debates and discussions. Besides, having a "Like" system just seems so Facebook. I just don't see it's use here.
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I think that something like the karma system has a place on the board. I can definitely understand Ray's desire to have a board that is a positive face of the MSTA to the MC community without having to feel like he has to invest a lot of time and energy on watching the board and modding threads.
Well I disagree (but I won't smite you.) I have never seen a respectable forum apply this sort of mechanism and I know for a fact we have now lost one valuable participant because the system was manipulated beyond it's stated purpose. It's gone beyond an experiment to a bad idea IMO.
Eliminate the smite button. The only feedback that can be given is for positive, beneficial posts. This may help to eliminate some of the high school/junior high popularity contest vibe that some are feeling. I would not add this without adding #1 for the reasons I mention above. JP
Well, no sort of tracking of opinions should be necessary. We are (mostly) all adults here. If we can't work out disagreements by civil discussions, then we are missing out on the beauty of debates and discussions. Besides, having a "Like" system just seems so Facebook. I just don't see it's use here.
completely agree pkpk, well said (Debby for you lol) not sure why that changed too lol
i have 0 clue what the ratings accomplishes, makes no sense. Not sure what it was intended to do. I was out of the country for a couple of weeks, came back and the boards blew up in 10 different directions. I doubt anything was accomplished and this rating system is beyond ridiculous.
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Perhaps this is not the right tool to use, but I still admire and respect Ray's efforts.
I'd personally would like things to remain (and at times, be more) civil on this forum.
On other forums I frequent, things are NOT so civil; yet I find enjoyment and successes in those communities. But I also recognize that many MM forum enthusiasts do not enjoy those communities and have limited their participation in them as a result.
Is Ray so wrong in striving to maintain/build a civil community here?
Or is it that you feel this is just the wrong method?
And perhaps the tool is not the problem... just how the population is using it. Just a thought.
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RANT ON----------
I will come right out and say it....
This system is about the stupidest thing you could have done to the forum RAY.
It has driven off a long time member and participant which is worth far more than anything this stupid system could ever accomplish in the positive......
I will smite you just because I can, as long as this system stays in place, the entire board can show off complete negative numbers and represent to the public that nobody likes anybody or how anyone posts......Since your goal was to "show off" to potential newbies how "civil" we are....
You have open protest against it, numerous people stepping up and saying it is stupid, childish, unnecessary, high schoolish, junior high schoolish, wont work as intended etc........
You know what I find pathetically funny......You are willing to (all on your own mind you) go out there and employ this as a new strategy without any support, but unwilling to try some other strategies that actually have support.........Why is that??
The whole Brent and Debbie name thing now...........WTF is that---that is even more stupid than smite and applaud...Are you somehow saying that you smite Brent? or dislike him? or is it Debbie?
I am unclear which is the good and which is the evil?????? I like them both, should I hit both buttons??
So in your effort to "recruit" new members driving a wedge further between some existing members is okay? IS it a better alternative?
I for one sure don't see it and it certainly sounds and looks to me like others don't either.
YOUR idea is stupid and it is flawed. Have you not been paying attention to the reactions to it.....I know your birthday was recently, but you are not so old that you went cuckoo are you???? I mean I hope not, I like riding with you (sans the first ride of the year)
You said it yourself this was on the heals of one of my postings, so clearly I am to blame......what do you want me to do about, so everyone else doesn't have to suffer??????????
you don't want me to hammer people......well then they should not post up riding on bald tires and defending it, or posting rides advertised as +10 and then run +40. They should not put up videos of "racetrack" type riding or showing the speedo sweeping past 100 mph...You know common sense things.....Take away those actions and I would have little to be hammering for their own good, about.....
How about you start by removing the first stupid action, subsequent reactions and actions wouldn't come to light and the issues would be far less frequent... Or I am to blame for their stupidity and ignorance too ?....
This system is doomed to fail, it is only a matter of time, why not cut it off now before anyone else gets hurt.....
Brent me is you agree, or is it Debbie me if you agree......
RANT OFF-------
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Whoa, Lloyd, take a breath friend. I think Ray is only trying to do a positive thing here. From one friend to another, you need to temper your reactions. You'd never survive in a corporate world by getting 200+ uptight when you perceive an idea that doesn't suit you. I think Ray is getting the feedback he is looking for by the dissatisfied comments.
It gets back to the whole point, I think. At some point we all need to learn to play together in the sandbox. Breath....breath......we (well I and many who I know) like you, but not so much at your reactions (I know you know this.)
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Though the rating would be nice, I see it like big brother government. There's really only so much you can try to limit before you'll realize it simply won't work.
If you haven't ridden with someone before just send some pm's around and I'm sure it won't take long to find out how a person rides and what kind of person they are.
Beyond that it's just a matter of time and getting out before you find who's riding styles you Are compatible with. Doesn't the old saying go, anyone who's driving slower than you is an idiot for going so slow and the person who's driving faster is an idiot for going so fast?
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You said it yourself this was on the heals of one of my postings, so clearly I am to blame......what do you want me to do about, so everyone else doesn't have to suffer??????????
You are not to blame, but let me make something absolutely clear.
You need to act civilly.
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You said it yourself this was on the heals of one of my postings, so clearly I am to blame......what do you want me to do about, so everyone else doesn't have to suffer??????????
You are not to blame, but let me make something absolutely clear.
You need to act civilly.
So do I understand this to mean only I need to, or would the wording have been better as "everyone needs to act civilly" so everyone gets the message....
I don't know, perhaps it just me, but it sure appears to be a statement only aimed towards me. Is that civil? Perhaps just a choice of words faux pas.
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You said it yourself this was on the heals of one of my postings, so clearly I am to blame......what do you want me to do about, so everyone else doesn't have to suffer??????????
You are not to blame, but let me make something absolutely clear.
You need to act civilly.
So do I understand this to mean only I need to, or would the wording have been better as "everyone needs to act civilly" so everyone gets the message....
I don't know, perhaps it just me, but it sure appears to be a statement only aimed towards me. Is that civil? Perhaps just a choice of words faux pas.
Look at what you wrote in the post that I responded to. I directly answered the question you posed.
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Let me make it clear that the Debby and Brent change came from PMing with Brent and Debby earlier this day and joking around. It was doen with their permission with the intent of getting people to lighten up. It was also done to demonstrate that we of course can do different things with "Karma". I was surprised it triggered an example of the lack of civility which is at issue.
At this point we have a few options. The objective is to have a means of maintaining a civil discourse on the forum in the face of disagreements, dislike and hate. I'm echoing the title of the post to make sure the objective here is not lost again.
The following is by no means a comprehensive list of things we can do and I encourage everyone to put forth their ideas as well as their comments on the different options we have.
1. We can get rid of Karma and not do any rating system, and I can begin to moderate and administrate the board based on what I consider civil behavior. Unlike the rule against personal attacks, I do not have a succinct way of defining civility, so if anyone wants to suggest one to go along with this option, I'm all ears. Without such a suggestion, I'm asking implicitly for everyone to agree to trust and support my judgement on what civil behavior is. No matter how I look at this personally my problem with it, is it is censorship.
2. We can implement Karma, we can change the way it is implemented, we can change "Debby" and "Brent" to whatever we want, we can make the number a total of the count of the Debby's and Brent's people receive and we can extend the period which people have to wait before they can give a member a Debby or Brent.
3. We can try to implement the system that Ben suggested, http://custom.simplemachines.org/mods/index.php?mod=1890read about it here (http://), so that posts are rated as positive of negative or positively only and users get a "Respect" rating based on the cumulative ratings of all their posts. My guess is I can do it. It will probably a bit of time for me to get it done, and once it gets done the risk we will have problems due to forum updates, should be small, but it is there.
4. People can simply report posts they feel aren't civil and once I get a certain number of reports, for example 3, I can delete the post. The problem with this approach is that once people start responding to a post, it becomes much more difficult to edit or delete a post. You can end up having to delete the quoted sections of posts and in some cases this may render some parts of a response nonsensical, so the question becomes whether responses to uncivil posts, which quote uncivil posts, but don't contain uncivil content need to be edited so they make sense.
Of course, we can also do any combination of the preceding. What other ideas and comments do people have?
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Ray, #4 is the closest to my vote but at even that I think you are advocating something too close to a democracy. :)
That might sound strange, but the best forums I know of have a few pretty strong personalities who decide when enough is enough. If a poster steps over the line, the post is gone, plain and simple. In fact, on one board it's a bragging point to have a post yanked. :D
Personally I think you are trying to appease everyone too much. Why not just start deciding yourself what is appropriate and what is not? Anyone that disagrees can start their own club.
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I think we need to back this thing up just a little bit. All of you that make this the best club to be in are butting heads. Look at all the great stuf that comes out of this group of people. This internet thing is too easy to distort, when you say something with no expression on your face (and there is no face here) it is always serious.
In my opinion if something is important enough to change, then it is important enough to meet face to face. Just seems to me the argument has become more important than the subject here.
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As usual there is a strong division on what started as a simple change in the forum and its blown up in to a BIG deal. Publicly disagreeing on this forum has turned in to ongoing feuds with a cold war type scenario with guns aimed at each other at all times and looking for a reason to start shooting when certain people speak just to publicly disagree and stir up another round of as the world turns. This "agree with me or your wrong" type attitude and never backing down scares away new comers and driving away current members from entering discussions and rides. The karma system was implemented to quietly and anonymously disagree with a member since the playground constantly turns in to a war zone. Does this then become such a BIG deal because we now have a way to disagree with someone and that person can't open a direct attack to retaliate? That was my first thought...It's a way to disagree without getting in to it, not everyone wants to be told they're wrong.
I would like to see this forum get back to the old MNSportbike days where we organized rides shared tips and routes with fun discussions about our hobby we all enjoy. Its more like a war zone.
Our threads are looking like the family that fights every time we say something, we have become numb to it like the alcoholic uncle who gets a few sips in him at thanksgiving and starts shooting his mouth off but to the outside world looking in it looks like a dysfunctional mess that deters newcomers and silences the current ones.
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Ray, I think you should take your 4 ideas and post a poll, let people vote and go with what the majority wants to do
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Ray, I think you should take your 4 ideas and post a poll, let people vote and go with what the majority wants to do
That's where I'm headed, but I want to make sure we get everything out so there is no after the fact points being made that cause people to say we should have another poll on the topic.
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A 5th unusual option would be to make all the boards in the forum have the same permissions as the safety and riding tips sub forum. This would give every original poster the ability to completely moderate any topic they started, and would mean that each an every thread would reflect the original poster's intent and sensibilities. This option would mean that anyone reading a thread would recognize the thread as being representative of the original poster. I think it would lessen the hesitancy to start topics of some members, since they would have nearly complete control over any topic they started
It would also mean that people who wanted to express counterpoints, views or other sensibilities that the original poster of another thread was editing out, or deleting, would be driven to start their own thread, which they could use to make the points they wished.
The approach would mute the confrontation of discussions to the degree anyone was comfortable or uncomfortable with it.
It is an unusual option as I have never seen a forum run with these permissions so it might in practice end up being very different from what we might think it will be and since it is such a fundamental change to the context of threads, unlike Karma once done it would be a different thing to undo. As it is unusual, its implications might also be very confusing to people who are new to the forum.
It could also be implemented in a separate sub forum so people who wanted to post under these permissions could do so if they choose and people who preferred to post under traditional permissions could do so, or it could be implemented so users could select to use these types of permissions everywhere in the forum and some could select not to, and the type of permissions a member selected would be indicated in their profile.
Lastly if we really wanted to make things complicated, this could be implemented in conjunction with any of the other options.
I find it pretty interesting that no one has really commented about the special permissions that have been established for the Safety and Riding Tips section.
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Ray, I think the special permissions works well in the wiki-style Safety Forum. I agree with you that I think it would be a little weird implemented on the rest of the forum.
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I feel that Ray (and other moderators) should have permission to give vacations of increasing length based on severity of "lack of civility" and frequency of being uncivil. If the moderatos are individually unsure of a particular person's posts, then they can poll each other through email.
No, I am not a moderator.
If the goal is to build MN MSTA and this is our front window, someone does actually have to decide what is appropriate. If it is a group of people, some whom happen to be members of MSTA, then there is less need to "keep up appearances".
Even if someone "tells it as I see it" and says they "don't suffer fools", if the goal is civility (with an occasional dig for fun), then we have a standard that should be enforceable. No, not everyone will agree, but I for one don't like the personal attacks (even if the observations and conclusions are in alignment with my view).
Make it so!
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The objective is to have a means of maintaining a civil discourse on the forum in the face of disagreements, dislike and hate. I'm echoing the title of the post to make sure the objective here is not lost again.
In the context of this objective, I think I'm a fan of option 3 (Ray, the link in your post above is a bit malformed), the per-post voting thing, along with #4. We know and understand that some members dislike each other and that even people who like each other will disagree and possibly communicate in regrettable ways. Unfortunately I don't think the Karma system gets to the heart of civility.
ci·vil·i·ty
Noun:
Formal politeness and courtesy in behavior or speech.
Polite remarks used in formal conversation.
Synonyms: courtesy - politeness - comity - urbanity - complaisance
If we truly and simply want to improve the tone of our interactions I think that direct feedback on specific interaction, with a clear understanding of the stated goal (civility), has the most upside and the smallest possible downside / potential for misuse.
Andy
* edited for non-printing characters in the copy/paste of the civility definition.
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I picked up my first smite after the post above, which I thought was exceedingly on-topic and civil. Did someone disagree with my vote enough to actively express displeasure with "me"?
:(
Andy
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My guess is that someone did not like the fact that your belt did not match your shoes today!
I picked up my first smite after the post above, which I thought was exceedingly on-topic and civil. Did someone disagree with my vote enough to actively express displeasure with "me"?
:(
Andy
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I picked up my first smite after the post above, which I thought was exceedingly on-topic and civil. Did someone disagree with my vote enough to actively express displeasure with "me"?
:(
Andy
Get with the program Andy, Applaud and Smite are so yesterday. You could not have picked up an Applaud or Smite today, you could only have picked up a Debby or a Brent.
Personally I'm ambivalent about which one is better to get, but when I went back and forth with Debby and Brent, they didn't argue when I said I thought people would tend to think getting a Debby was better than getting a Brent. Having known them for over a decade, I can tell you it is honestly a tough call. I would be happy getting either.
I was thinking of changing them tomorrow to Linus and Lucy or may be Krusty and Bozo or maybe Kyle and Cartman. My mind reels with the possibilities.
For those who missed it, I also experimented with option 1 just before posting this.
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"For those who missed it, I also experimented with option 1 just before posting this."
That is censorship>>>>>>>>>
How was that post answering Matts posts in any way shape or form uncivil or a personal attack?
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"For those who missed it, I also experimented with option 1 just before posting this."
That is censorship>>>>>>>>>
How was that post answering Matts posts in any way shape or form uncivil or a personal attack?
From your (Lloyd's) removed post
"Uncivil and rude are all in ones perception, everyone will have their own opinion on what that is...just like their favorite tire or favorite oil."
1. We can get rid of Karma and not do any rating system, and I can begin to moderate and administrate the board based on what I consider civil behavior. Unlike the rule against personal attacks, I do not have a succinct way of defining civility, so if anyone wants to suggest one to go along with this option, I'm all ears. Without such a suggestion, I'm asking implicitly for everyone to agree to trust and support my judgement on what civil behavior is. No matter how I look at this personally my problem with it, is it is censorship.
It is my perception, and Option 1 can admittedly be viewed as censorship. No surprise, and no justification will be given as it is not arguable.
Option 1 is one of 5 options I've put forth. I'm still open to other suggestions. I'm am not open to uncivil behavior continuing without any management or offset.
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RAy---"I'm am not open to uncivil behavior continuing without any management or offset."
So somehow this is not "uncivil" or a personal attack in your view point?
{Admin edit, this was reported by the poster and was removed as being uncivil before this post was made}
Or this--
Matt--"Coming from the ultimate Troll .... who wasn't there ( never has been, never will be ), blatantly lies (tell me where anyone hit triple digits?), sends hilariously PM's to me as if he's the Chief of Police of Motorcycling - don't you wish you were??, and is obviously obsessed with the way I ride. I've got a great life and a great hobby of motorcycling, and nothing to defend in my manner of riding. However I ride is the way I ride. So go ahead and text your riding buddies and come up with another small-dick response. "
Yep I guess you are right (NOT!) these posts clearly are not personal attacks...yeah right---more sarcasm---
If you are going to pull out the moderation card---then moderate equally and fairly, if not then don't moderate anything.
Hey and since you can quote my post you deleted, send it back to me, so I can re-read it and highlight whatever your perception decided was worse than these 2 quotes.....
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upon close inspection it smells like a smite - screenshot attached. i still don't think it addresses the stated goals and having picked up two negatives today for doing nothing uncivil reinforces my belief that it is the wrong tool for the job. i was under the impression that this was a discussion about that - rather than yet another thread where someone pokes lloyd until he posts something that can be twisted into ammo for a future personal attack.
Andy
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as long as we're quoting examples of loaded and easily misunderstood or potentially uncivil comments, i'd offer this one:
Back on topic...
"Ride your own ride", for me, is very situational. It could be taking over leadership of a "Slimy Crud" ride, or taking over ride leadership from a "leader" who can't follow their own route sheet, or leading a noob around the ABC's, or smelling the roses ride from the back.
You narcissists ...
and this one spiked my meter for a bit but i got over it pretty quickly:
Get with the program Andy, Applaud and Smite are so yesterday.
a.s.
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Lloyd I'm going to try to keep this civil and not beat a dead horse anymore. The second quote you posted of mine is the one I acknowledged as being one of the uncivil posts I referenced in my post above - again a chain of events following your actions.
Other than calling you a white elephant I'm not sure what offends you in my post above. You yourself stated that these threads are because of your attitude earlier in this thread. How about we put it in the past and have a good time using this forum to organize riding, talk about the sport, and possibly recruit members like myself into the MSTA? If you don't like me as you've stated a million times that is fine, you can ignore myself and others who you've never really met and that is fine. If you've got something to say I respect your own opinion but when you call everyone an idiot or worse who isn't in your riding clique then that just has no benefit to the forum.
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RAy---"I'm am not open to uncivil behavior continuing without any management or offset."
So somehow this is not "uncivil" or a personal attack in your view point?
{Admin edit, this was reported by the poster and was removed as being uncivil before this post was made}
Or this--
Matt--"Coming from the ultimate Troll .... who wasn't there ( never has been, never will be ), blatantly lies (tell me where anyone hit triple digits?), sends hilariously PM's to me as if he's the Chief of Police of Motorcycling - don't you wish you were??, and is obviously obsessed with the way I ride. I've got a great life and a great hobby of motorcycling, and nothing to defend in my manner of riding. However I ride is the way I ride. So go ahead and text your riding buddies and come up with another small-dick response. "
Yep I guess you are right (NOT!) these posts clearly are not personal attacks...yeah right---more sarcasm---
If you are going to pull out the moderation card---then moderate equally and fairly, if not then don't moderate anything.
Hey and since you can quote my post you deleted, send it back to me, so I can re-read it and highlight whatever your perception decided was worse than these 2 quotes.....
The remaining uncivility was reported by the poster over 10 days after it was made and after it was quoted by the poster in his response to the post. As mentioned, in an earlier post in this thread,
4. People can simply report posts they feel aren't civil and once I get a certain number of reports, for example 3, I can delete the post. The problem with this approach is that once people start responding to a post, it becomes much more difficult to edit or delete a post. You can end up having to delete the quoted sections of posts and in some cases this may render some parts of a response nonsensical, so the question becomes whether responses to uncivil posts, which quote uncivil posts, but don't contain uncivil content need to be edited so they make sense.
You received a PM in response to your moderation report, indicating essentially that what is bolded in the preceding was the case.
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How about we put it in the past and have a good time using this forum to organize riding, talk about the sport, and possibly recruit members like myself into the MSTA?
Nice post, Matt. Classy, even. You deserve a couple Debbys for that one for sure.
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and this one spiked my meter for a bit but i got over it pretty quickly:
Get with the program Andy, Applaud and Smite are so yesterday.
a.s.
Sorry Andy. It was intended entirely as joke.
If we continue on with Karma, the system will be reset to 0 and probably relabeled so whatever whatevers you are receiving are meaningless, in my opinion. I just received a PM suggesting Batman and Robin.
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I guessed that after reading it a couple of times :D thankfully before I formed a strong opinion and unloaded on you.
a.s.
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Ohhh, not sure who I want to be, Batman or Robin
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They both wear their underwear on the outside.
Not that there's anything wrong with that.
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How about we put it in the past and have a good time using this forum to organize riding, talk about the sport, and possibly recruit members like myself into the MSTA?
Nice post, Matt. Classy, even. You deserve a couple Debbys for that one for sure.
What a Brent of a post!
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How about we put it in the past and have a good time using this forum to organize riding, talk about the sport, and possibly recruit members like myself into the MSTA?
Nice post, Matt. Classy, even. You deserve a couple Debbys for that one for sure.
What a Brent of a post!
That one had me bust out laughing Ray. It all came full circle.
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A poll on this topic will be created on April 10th.
If anyone has an additional comments or ideas on how we should proceed please come forth with them. Anything that is not brought up prior to the 10th can not be included in the poll.
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I find the Karma system a little confusing. I mean I'm pretty sure that someone on this list
is very smitten with me, since I have gotten one "smite" for each post I have made since its
inception. Yet the Karma system leaves me absolutely no way to know who my secret admirer
is and why they find me so absolutely enthralling!
When the system changed to being Debby'd or Brent'd, I started getting Brent'd for each post I
make. But isn't being "Brent'd" synonymous with being invited on a 500-1000 mile day in the
depth of the WI twisties by an entertaining goofball who actually waits at the turns? Is that
supposed to be a bad thing? I'm so confused!!!
Now if we change Karma to Batman and Robin, I'm assuming "Batman" is the preferred choice,
but Robin is kind of cute too, and since they both wear their underwear on the outside, how are
we to know which one is the better choice? And what about CatWoman or the Joker? How do
they factor in? And can any one of them actually help me improve my cornering technique?
Because that would be awesome!! Especially if they can do it while wearing a mask and cape!
:D
How about we just get back to RIDIN'?! Happy Easter, Y'all!
~ d
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The whole karma thing seems a bit silly to me. Vince just enlightened me to what it was, so I just gave everyone I thought gave me bad karma the same. That's how silly it is, it's just a game of tit for tat in my opinion.
Just like mngir 1 said, lets get back to the ridin part of this forum. When a thread goes viral just delete the whole thread and move on (end of problem). This bickering back and forth is wearin me out and I aint even involved. We don't need change, we need to move on.
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I feel that Ray (and other moderators) should have permission to give vacations of increasing length based on severity of "lack of civility" and frequency of being uncivil.
I Debby that ^. but I'm sure I earned a few Brent's from some people for it. oh well.
I'm not convinced on the positive results that the debby/brent system can provide
like a lot of people have stated. I personally don't care how many of either I have. I
don't think that it's being utilized in the way it's intended. I mean, tk has 3 brents?
how is that even possible? And I know there's a few forum members that think I
have no right posting at all. I'm not a full member, and I don't publicly participate
on group rides. But I have personal reasons for that, so instead of publicly attacking
me for it, why not ask me personally? Or just up my brent count, but I like Brent so
I'm fine with that!
I kinda like Vince's like suggestion, and we can call it the rainbows and unicorns button.
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I hope this stays up long enough to see who the winner is to make it to triple digits both plus and minus.
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I hope this stays up long enough to see who the winner is to make it to triple digits both plus and minus.
dude, it's "debby" and "brent"!
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Rainbows and unicorns? I was hoping to become a controversial bad boy smoking by the dumpster between class ???
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When a thread goes viral just delete the whole thread and move on (end of problem). This bickering back and forth is wearin me out and I aint even involved. We don't need change, we need to move on.
+1 Perfectly stated! The thread should have been deleted a long time ago and the karma experiment terminated. IMO, some damage has now occurred that could take some time to heal.
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Is it against the rules to buy karma points?
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Hey, it appears that I've got a few to spare.... u want some Brent's or some Debby's? ;)
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Made me smile, one Debby for you stranger :)
I could care less, I mean I'll only cry a little tonight if I get more Brent's..
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Hey, it appears that I've got a few to spare.... u want some Brent's or some Debby's? ;)
;D LOL
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I was looking into setting up a "group buy" for some psycho-therapy... any interest? :)
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I was looking into setting up a "group buy" for some psycho-therapy... any interest? :)
its gonna take a BIG couch ;)
(http://www.captionfridays.com/wp-content/caption_bigcouch.jpg)
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I was looking into setting up a "group buy" for some psycho-therapy... any interest? :)
its gonna take a BIG couch ;)
You calling me FAT?! :o
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(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-MsBkCDXLJsY/Tg3_zkAx-JI/AAAAAAAAA0g/xuIZMWr_aUw/s1600/Fit-N-PHAT.jpg)
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If we continue on with Karma, the system will be reset to 0 and probably relabeled so whatever whatevers you are receiving are meaningless, in my opinion. I just received a PM suggesting Batman and Robin.
Meaningless labels, are, ah, well, meaningless - so how could they help you manage anything by using them?
How about "Civil Post" and "Uncivil Post" - even if the counter stays global at least you are communicating both the intent and the granularity for which you want the links to be clicked. Everyone should have high numbers of civil posts (assuming people bother to click it for "normal" posts) and a few, very infrequent uncivil posts. I suppose there is admin reporting behind the system and you can have a talk both with people who are incorrectly flagging posts as uncivil (to help them understand the point and clarify the definition) and people who are truly posting things that people perceive as uncivil.
a.s.
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I prefer "cool kids" and "dweebs" (please no nerds - too close to home for me).
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And the winner is with -100 Brents.
This is working pretty good you have to keep checking in every hour for up dates.
OK and for a back to back win he only needs 2 Debbies. Come on there out there some where.
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My opinion is to axe the debby and brent system.
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We have a back to back champion with 100 Debbies and 102 Brents.
Ok we are in the triple digits.
It's time to slow down and be safe. Well until the new bike gets here anyway.
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It's time to slow down and be safe. Well until the new bike gets here anyway.
When does the new bike arrive Vince?! And is it a Kawi or BMW?
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When does the new bike arrive Vince?! And is it a Kawi or BMW?
Ben, judging from the text and pic he sent me on Saturday, he just might be sporting a new GSX-R in yellow & black.... Copycat! :P
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Yes there was a yellow bike there and it was very tempting to buy it and make some one jealous.
It should be here some time this month. ZX10R ABS.
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Yes there was a yellow bike there and it was very tempting to buy it and make some one jealous.
Haha, I'm sure that would've made a local wheelie popping yellow gixxer rider very jealous indeed! :)
It should be here some time this month. ZX10R ABS.
That will make ME very jealous! Hope to see you flogging that thing at a ZARS day sometime this summer...
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Finally some thread jacking that took a thread in a better direction ;)
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Yes there was a yellow bike there and it was very tempting to buy it and make some one jealous.
It should be here some time this month. ZX10R ABS.
Chris would have been ok with another yellow bike ;)
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Haha, I'm sure that would've made a local wheelie popping yellow gixxer rider very jealous indeed! :)
ahhh, that yellow one, heh ;D
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I like yellow!
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oopsies, forgot about u roger. Brent me if u must. lol
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Yes there was a yellow bike there and it was very tempting to buy it and make some one jealous.
It should be here some time this month. ZX10R ABS.
Chris would have been ok with another yellow bike ;)
yeah, harder for the cops to pick out which on of the three it was :)
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I like yellow!
Don'tcha know... Yellow is the new Black! :o
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I officially have more Debbie's than Brent's. Neener neener
You may not be able to buy happiness but you sure can buy friends and karma points :)
(have a good feeling bragging is a good way to get on the Brent list lol)
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They both wear their underwear on the outside.
Not that there's anything wrong with that.
By far the best post in this thread - nicely done Pidgin Killer
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Can we please acknowledge that the rating system is fundamentally flawed and move on on? It has served its purpose.
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Can we please acknowledge that the rating system is fundamentally flawed and move on on? It has served its purpose.
Your just mad you got a lot of bad karma :p
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Dump it
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In hopes of getting some kind of additional feedback I was going to let this go for a bit longer, but I guess it is time to put a fork in it.
Topic closed.
Watch for the poll.