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General Category => General Banter => Topic started by: Sanders on July 05, 2010, 11:51:34 AM
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I've not seen this many deer while riding since 2007. I'm seeing them in broad daylight, all day long. I think I'm reading about more deer strikes versus bikes too. It rarely ends well for the motorcyclist. This fall when they REALLY start to move around could be very bad.
http://www.startribune.com/local/97800409.html
I dunno, my ears always home in on motorcycle accident info, am I hearing more, or they covering it better?
Ride safe, especially after dark.
Sanders, Jeffery, J
semper fi
'07 BMW GS Adv.
'76 BMW R90/6
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I'm just back from a weekend ride up to Ashland, WI. I lost track of how many deer I hit the brakes for. Ten o'clock Saturday night I had to stop for a deer crossing the road...6th Street in downtown Ashland! Lot's of doe/fawn combos. Had one doe exit to the left, while the fawn got confused and ran in two complete circles across both lanes before following her.
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Yeah I should have mentioned the Doe fawn combo is really high this year. Northern Wi. and the U.P. have got to be just terrible after dark.
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"A man killed Sunday in a motorcycle accident was Thomas C. White of Clear Lake, Minn. White, 63, was riding on Hwy. 169 near Garrison, in Crow Wing County, when he hit a deer about 1 a.m."
This hits home for me, This is someone that I knew. I didnt think it would have made the paper already though. He was better known as Grizz, and was well known in the Harley M/C club world.
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That makes two on 169 in that area in two weeks now.
I'm ticked that DNR deer management decisions seem strictly defined by hunting licenses. They make sure that there is a supply of deer for the number of licenses. Rider fatality and vehicle insurance seems to not factor one bit.
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(http://i583.photobucket.com/albums/ss273/ray916mn/Ray%20Motorcycling/RayOzarkDeer.jpg)
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We saw a bunch of dead deer on the sides of the roads in the Brainerd Lakes area today. I too have noticed an increase in spotting them this season.
May have to take up deer hunting to help control the population!!
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We saw a doe/fawn combo at about 11 AM on the Monday ride. They need to thin out the deer population.
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Had a huge one run out in front of me yesterday here in southern MN. I had plenty of time to avoid it but it's still an eye-opener. Deer (and other large critters) are far and away at the top of my Risk Chart for motorcycling. I hit one in my truck once and realized that sometimes there is just nothing you can do to avoid them apart from not leaving the house. At least bad drivers are somewhat predictable since you can plan on them being an idiot, but I equate deer with a bolt of lightning: You may have some idea that they're in the area, but where and when they strike is anyone's guess. They are the sole reason I avoid riding at night, which I used to love to do.
I've known guys that split them in half then rode to a stop without going down, while my friend's father-in-law is currently trying to regain his short term memory and is lucky to be alive and others are even less fortunate. Seems like the result of hitting a deer is as unpredictable as hitting them in the first place. I guess that besides the obvious (gear-up, extra caution in deer infested areas, practice panic stops) the only thing to do in the event of an unavoidable collision with a forest rat is let out a rebel yell and aim for the squishy parts. As bad as it may be, a deer is still softer than a tree or the grill of a truck.
Boo Deer! (http://www.camcycle.net/WIMoto/blbl.gif)
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deer bad
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Animals are my biggest fear on a bike.
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The deer herd is bigger than it was when the pilgrims landed on the east coast.
We've lost at least four riders to deer so far this year, out of 12 total fatalities we're aware of. We lost about five between 1995 and 1999, a dozen between 2000 and 2004, and about 20 between 2005 and 2009, all to deer. Maybe it's time someone talks to their legislator about herd management.
On the other hand, yes, they are thick and everywhere and all times of day, but really--driving in deer country after dark is like gambling, and on a motorcycle it ain't a good bet.
You live here long enough, you understand what I'm saying: it's not a matter of if, but when.
P
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After reading your book I always try not to ride at night. The odds against you go waaaay up
The deer herd is bigger than it was when the pilgrims landed on the east coast.
We've lost at least four riders to deer so far this year, out of 12 total fatalities we're aware of. We lost about five between 1995 and 1999, a dozen between 2000 and 2004, and about 20 between 2005 and 2009, all to deer. Maybe it's time someone talks to their legislator about herd management.
On the other hand, yes, they are thick and everywhere and all times of day, but really--driving in deer country after dark is like gambling, and on a motorcycle it ain't a good bet.
You live here long enough, you understand what I'm saying: it's not a matter of if, but when.
P
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Yup, that chapter did it for me too. I seldom ride at night and never start a ride at night.
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You can move your odds back up while riding at night by a few ways:
1. Slow down. That's still too fast....slow down some more. yep, I'm talking 45 mph on a county road and while that is a horrible crawl for some of you, the chances are slim you will die if you have proper gear and somehow get broadsided by a deer. Slowing down gives you much more time to react and also gives the critters more time to change their direction. I know going that slow just isn't possible for some. It comes down to how much you want to ride versus what you want to get out of riding. If you only know fast, then you better not ride after dark.
2. Light up. If you think you are going to wind up doing a fair amount of riding after dark, you need auxiliary lighting to shine some light down the road and into the ditches. I extend my riding all the way into December and there is no way I can be home by 4 pm at that time of year. There are many options and it's my rule you get what you pay for. Good luck with them $20 lights for Wal-Mart.
3. If you are on a highway where 45 is dangerous, then plant your butt on the back of a truck (but not too close so you can't react.) Yeah, I know you will say that there is still a chance a deer can come directly at you from the side. Not much I can do about that beside avoid the highway altogether and take a county road where I can go slow.
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3. If you are on a highway where 45 is dangerous, then plant your butt on the back of a truck (but not too close so you can't react.) Yeah, I know you will say that there is still a chance a deer can come directly at you from the side. Not much I can do about that beside avoid the highway altogether and take a county road where I can go slow.
Gary Eagan did this on his cross Canada speed attempt. He said it worked until he started getting sprayed with moose guts from the moose the truckers would hit!
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Pk does not have to worry about deer. PK IS the pigeon killer, and much like moths attracted to light, those flying recyclers are just naturally attracted to him
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Pk does not have to worry about deer. PK IS the pigeon killer, and much like moths attracted to light, those flying recyclers are just naturally attracted to him
LOL, you know your "fly'n" when you're hitting birds ;D
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Pk does not have to worry about deer. PK IS the pigeon killer, and much like moths attracted to light, those flying recyclers are just naturally attracted to him
LOL, you know your "fly'n" when you're hitting birds ;D
And NOBODY matches PK at picking off birds.
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A bird flew into my helmet once, it felt like somebody threw a rock at me. Good thing I was on a straightaway. My biggest fear is small animals, squirrels ect. To hit one on a corner, cause your tire to skip into the air just enough to make you loose control.
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Today on Buffalo Co Rd J I had a near miss that has me wondering if it isn't always a lottery, no matter day or night.
The frustrating thing is that I saw nothing coming, despite broad daylight. The deer materialized out of "nowhere" on the left, almost behind me, dashing across the road with perfect timing to intercept me. About as big as my V-Strom -- my only thought: "that should give me have a fair chance..."
A split second before impact the guy abandoned its suicidal attempt to cross in front of me, turned slightly forward and came alongside. About eye-to-eye with my rearview mirror. I fully expectecd its momentum to slam it into my rear end and looked back in amazement when there was no "whack" from behind -- it safely finished crossing behind my bike.
One thing is for sure, these guys have amazing cornering skills. ;)
But it seems to me that there is really no promising evasive strategy. What are you supposed to do -- swerve to the far side to get ahead of it? No chance in hell. Swerve to the other side in hope to pass behind it? Hit the brakes? I mean, all of those things can prove fatal if the deer, like mine, takes evasive actions of its own. Not even your speed in the first place would seem to make a difference. In the end, just keeping the bike straight and aiming for the center didn't seem like such a bad strategy.
Well, I drove on humbly praising my luck many times. Particularly when I passed my guy's supersized cousin, not even a quarter mile down the road, dead, among a collection of glass and debris that must have left a nasty dent in someones car...
Anyway, my next gadget will be a body-heat activated laser cannon that pulverizes anything that moves 1000 feet down the road...
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wow that was close HSL, glad your OK, one question for you, did you need new shorts after?
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wow that was close HSL, glad your OK, one question for you, did you need new shorts after?
With that high of a pucker factor....he's probably still looking for them. :o
Glad it turned out okay, but it re-affirms my belief that deer are like a bolt of lightning: You can try to prepare for them, but you really can't avoid them.
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Makes you feel is it all worth it. No matter how skilled you are, there is a factor of luck (or bad luck) to all of this.
The more you ride, especially in rural areas, the higher the risk.
Maybe stick to track days only, single track off road only or move to mountain biking entirely.
Allon
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But it seems to me that there is really no promising evasive strategy. What are you supposed to do -- swerve to the far side to get ahead of it? No chance in hell. Swerve to the other side in hope to pass behind it? Hit the brakes? I mean, all of those things can prove fatal if the deer, like mine, takes evasive actions of its own. Not even your speed in the first place would seem to make a difference. In the end, just keeping the bike straight and aiming for the center didn't seem like such a bad strategy.
I agree. I had always braked hard and let the deer get out of the way, until the time I braked hard, then decided that brakes weren't going to be enough, swerved from the far-right side of the road to the middle, only to see the deer do the same. Can I get a do-over, please?
But I'm not even sure we get to decide what we're gonna do when it happens. I think our brains make a million decisions in an instant, and then our bodies just do what they're told.
Anyway, my next gadget will be a body-heat activated laser cannon that pulverizes anything that moves 1000 feet down the road...
Remind me not to ride ahead of you. :-\
Brent
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That is why I have only one strategy when it comes to deer. BRAKE HARD (unless you are in a turn.) By braking you can give the deer more time to evade your path and you can close the speed as much as possible to minimize the impact. Plus you might actually give yourself enough time to process and perform a possible evasion maneuver. I'm sure there are others who feel comfortable trying to throttle up and evade them but my brain doesn't work that fast so I keep it simple as possible.
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You confuse me, PK^2. First, you seem to recommend hard braking exclusively:
That is why I have only one strategy when it comes to deer. BRAKE HARD (unless you are in a turn.)
Then you toss in evasive maneuvers
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By braking you can give the deer more time to evade your path and you can close the speed as much as possible to minimize the impact. Plus you might actually give yourself enough time to process and perform a possible evasion maneuver [emphasis added].
Which is kinda what I did. I braked hard, and while braking, "decided" it might be a good idea to swerve instead, and then brake some more. Turns out it wasn't the best choice. At least not then and there.
It's possible, and safe, to brake, and then swerve, and then brake again, but I'm not sure it's a good idea when deer are involved. If I have a choice, next time I'm going to stay on the brakes. Until impact, if necessary.
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What I meant is BRAKE HARD, and maybe you could choose to take evasive move if you decide the braking bought you some time. That is different than making the evasive move your first decision.
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It's possible, and safe, to brake, and then swerve, and then brake again, but I'm not sure it's a good idea when deer are involved. If I have a choice, next time I'm going to stay on the brakes. Until impact, if necessary.
Before hitting the deer in the photo I posted, I was as hard on the brakes as I could be. When it was clear that I was going to hit the deer, I distinctly remember aiming for the middle of the deer and letting off the brakes. I think letting off the front brakes and a boat load of luck is what allowed me to avoid crashing.
On impact, the bike went into a vicious tank slapper, which eventually settled out. Had I still been on the brakes, I think the bike would have been destabilized even more by the hit and I would have crashed.
I aimed for the middle, because there was oncoming traffic on the left and a barbwire fence on my right. I feared hitting these more than I feared hitting the deer. Tried to hit the deer square to avoid being thrown off to the left or right.
Daylight hit with a decent amount of traffic on the road in both directions. Fricking deer have brains the size of walnuts...Totally unpredictable.
All the car drivers who saw me hit it, were really impressed that I didn't crash.
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What I meant is BRAKE HARD, and maybe you could choose to take evasive move if you decide the braking bought you some time. That is different than making the evasive move your first decision.
See, I'm easily confused. Thanks for the clarification.
I still wonder whether swerving to avoid a live, mobile deer is ever a good idea.
Brent
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Before hitting the deer in the photo I posted, I was as hard on the brakes as I could be. When it was clear that I was going to hit the deer, I distinctly remember aiming for the middle of the deer and letting off the brakes. I think letting off the front brakes and a boat load of luck is what allowed me to avoid crashing.
I would never pretend to have that thought process in that sort of panic situation. Plus I'm pretty sure my brain and hands would not communicate effectively if the ultimate goal is to "aim for the middle of the deer."
I have one simple goal, to scrub as much speed as possible. I would rather hit the deer with my brakes on than take my chances and see if I could somehow cut my way through the critter. My end goal is to survive and if I go down after contact so be it.
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I have one simple goal, to scrub as much speed as possible. I would rather hit the deer with my brakes on than take my chances and see if I could somehow cut my way through the critter. My end goal is to survive and if I go down after contact so be it.
This is how I would handle it as well. Brakes, brakes, brakes ..... launch over the handlebars (lol) and hopefully survive.
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Brake, absolutely. But frankly, I don't even recall if I got to the brakes before it was over. I just know that I was going 20 mph for quite a while afterwards -- with those adrenaline levels I would have made an emergency stop for even a turtle on the road (so much for Chris' question ;)).
Not getting to the brakes might have been just as well, given that the deer evaded around my rear-end. Hard braking might have made a side impact to the rear more likely. (Ouch.)
So take all the things we do or don't do for whatever reason, and add the things the deer does or doesn't do, and you get just what Allon saiid --
there is a factor of luck (or bad luck) to all of this.
-- for which we can be grateful every day we ride home safely. The only thing we can do is to ensure we don't push our luck any harder than absolutely necessary.
But I'm not even sure we get to decide what we're gonna do when it happens. I think our brains make a million decisions in an instant, and then our bodies just do what they're told.
Fully agreed. My only conscious thought was sizing up the guy and thinking a straight impact would be survivable (pure speculation, of course). I didn't plan, or aim, or anything like that. I guess there would have been a different level of panic, and more likely some silly and painful maneuver, if the thing had been moose-sized. But whether the thought was related at all to what I was doing, or what I was doing was just dictated by the inability to do something else -- no idea.
Anyway, my next gadget will be a body-heat activated laser cannon that pulverizes anything that moves 1000 feet down the road...
Remind me not to ride ahead of you. :-\
I think that's called "collateral damage". A small price to pay for my personal safety. :D
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All the car drivers who saw me hit it, were really impressed that I didn't crash.
Me, too.