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General Category => General Banter => Topic started by: Joel S on February 06, 2011, 09:36:38 AM
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hey guys, some of you know me and my riding. i am looking to improve my skills and kicking around zalusky to help with that. I know several of you are familiar with the school, instructors, things like that. i have taken the basic safety when i got my endorsement, but nothing else yet.
Please, anything would be great. Posts here or pm's are good either way.
Thanks much for the time,
Joel
red 09 c14
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Yes, a few of us on here are Lead Instructors. I'd be happy to help you decide whether ZARS is the best program for you. Everyone comes away with new understanding and skills. We spend some time addressing street situations as well as using track techniques to improve rider skill. Some other programs are more racer prep focussed, but we try to balance what people are interested in.
ZARS is structured and mixes class info with on course practice. You can get improvements by riding with many of the seasoned riders on this site and talking techique while stoped, but the ratio of time talking wil be much lower and you may not progress as quickly. Our instructor to rider ratio last year was 1 instructor to 3 riders, so you hear many different views and sometimes the way one of us phrases a concept just "clicks" for one of the students. Most of us are volunteers and that is why the cost is still so reasonable.
My favorite part of the program is Friday nights. Spend a few hours on your skill on Friday night and then go for a long ride on Saturday and use what you just learned. I think registration just opened, so there are plenty of slots available.
Feel free to PM me or BDawg or post your question here. There is also a lot of info on the Zars subforum on MNSBR.
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Joel, I have been thinking of going, too.
If you decide to attend, post the date you sign up for. :)
Ehrich
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I think it's a great idea to give it a try. I've done a dozen DCTC days over the last 3 years and have gotten a ton out of it. The Friday night classes are relatively cheap ($55) so if you try it and it doesn't do anything for you you aren't out much. You'll get 4 sessions of classroom instruction and 4 sessions on the track for that so it will give you a pretty good feel for what it's about and if you like it.
Working on improving your riding skills while riding on the street is not the best way to go at it in my opinion. Putting tons of miles down will definitely make you more comfortable and experienced, but how often do we talk about riding techniques at gas stops? I know for me the topics of conversation are usually 1. bullshitting, 2. the awesome stretch I just rode (more bullshitting), 3. insane cagers/the amish, 4. roadkill, 5. boobies, 6. blah blah blah. The great thing about ZARS/HE/whatever is that there is structured learning of skills, and that you put the new info into practice immediately after learning it. Also, the course doesn't change so you get the same types of corners so you can repeat the skill in the same manner lap after lap. Some riders say that it's a boring way to ride, but with the track being a control in the experiment, your riding style and inputs are the variable so you know what's causing improvement/worse results.
For the days themselves, you'll get out of them what you put into them. The instructors will give you techniques and drills to focus on, but if you want to work on something else you can talk to them for advice and work on your own stuff. The instructors and students are all there because they drink the kool aid too, so it's a really good vibe and everybody's really helpful. If you stick with it the instruction becomes more advanced as you are able to build on the stuff you have learned from previous sessions. As you hit the intermediate and advanced groups it becomes less "street" and more "track" skill oriented, but there is a ton of overlap between those skill sets so you will still be getting a ton out of it.
If you end up going, it's definitely more fun if you go there with a rider or two that you can pit with. I haven't signed up for any dates yet this year but will be over the next few weeks. You are welcome to pit with me if you want.
JP
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Also, the course doesn't change so you get the same types of corners so you can repeat the skill in the same manner lap after lap.
JP
This is the best part of riding on the track for me. I get the opportunity to repeat the same corners over and over. I can very gradually
increase my speed and lean angle each time thru as I work toward the limits of my skill.
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ZARS is great! You won't be dissapointed at all. The only thing dissapointing will be the fact that you will want to go again and again and again and (for me at least), my pocketbook dictates how many I can attend per year. :(
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I just signed up for May 15, level 1 (first time on track on a bike). ;D
Any suggestions for a complete track beginner?
Question: For taping up lights, bring along a roll of blue painter's tape?
This is going to be fun!
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I ride to the track and take a roll of tape. The blue painter's tape is cheap and comes off cleanly. Black gaffer tape is also clean and is more expensive, but is much cooler on a black bike.
For other suggestions, check out the ZARS subforum over at MNSBR (sorry about a cross post, but there is no way I could repeat all the good info from there) http://www.mnsportbikeriders.com/forums/index.php?showforum=54
The one suggestion you may not find there is about tank pads. If you are thinking about getting stomp grips, or similar, they will really help if your pants/seat are slippery. Without them, people tend to hold the bars too tightly. I suggested to Jessica that she stock some and she is loking into getting the universal small ones that she can sell at her events.
Looking forward to meeting you (I teach First Timers).
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Excellent info, Ian! Thanks!
I have lots of gaffer's tape; I do on-location classical performance recording. :)
Tank pads are great. I don't them on my current bike, but have been thinking about doing so. I have an HT Moto race seat on order which should be nice and grippy. The Ducati's stock seat is thin and slippery - more decorative than anything else.
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ZARS is so much fun you won't enjoy riding on the street nearly as much. It's definately like crack. I did my first date last May and by October I was on my seventh time plus two days at BIR and one at Gingerman. It would have been more but I highsided on my first lap on cold tires at the end of September. I learned a valuable lesson that day.
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ZARS is so much fun you won't enjoy riding on the street nearly as much.
I had the opposite experience. After a track day at BIR I started to enjoy street riding even more. That said,
I recommend everyone try the track at least once.
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I have a good amount of car track experience and have done some instructing. I found that I like both track and street, and the track experience helps a great deal on the street as I have a much better understanding of what cars can do.
I hope to gain the same benefit from riding on the track. I am also certain that I have bad habits to break and many things to learn.
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I ended up with a conflict for May 15. I have asked Jessica if I can switch my registration to June 5.
Bother.
Plus I would rather have the earlier date!
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how many days does it usual take to be level 2 ??
if i do may and june, is june lev1 still ??
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Jessica is easy to work with on date transfers and especially this early.
It takes 99.% of the riders 1 time to graduate 1 and move to 2. You aren't a 1%er are you? :) Pace is slower in 1 and returning riders are welcome to self select the lower pace (but you know none do, right? ;))
If this snow melt keeps up at this rate, we will need to schedule some March dates. ;D
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Jessica is easy to work with on date transfers and especially this early.
Indeed. She promptly switched me to June 5.
Now for the snow to stop. There is a lot out there already and it is really coming down.
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I just signed up for May 15, level 1 (first time on track on a bike). ;D
Any suggestions for a complete track beginner?
Question: For taping up lights, bring along a roll of blue painter's tape?
This is going to be fun!
Yes enjoy yourself and be gradual with your expectations and improvements. Oh and plz don't drag race down the straights if your gonna go turtle pace in the turns. Track riding is very addicting, so start saving your money!
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Yes enjoy yourself and be gradual with your expectations and improvements. Oh and plz don't drag race down the straights if your gonna go turtle pace in the turns. Track riding is very addicting, so start saving your money!
Fortunately it is dirt cheap to track a motorcycle in comparison to a car. :)
Part of my track introduction lecture for car drivers is to allow faster drivers to pass in the straights. It is frustrating when a slow driver in a powerful car guns it down the straights and will not let others pass. Good reminder.
With cars we keep our mirrors. Thus we know if someone is sitting on our tail in the corners. With bikes do you look back at the beginning of the straight to know if someone is on top of you so you know not to zip down the straight? I would hate to be that ass everyone complains about.
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With cars we keep our mirrors. Thus we know if someone is sitting on our tail in the corners. With bikes do you look back at the beginning of the straight to know if someone is on top of you so you know not to zip down the straight?
Focusing all your attention ahead is encouraged. Looking behind is discouraged.
There will always be people on liter bikes who ride relatively slowly through the corners and hold up the guys on 600s. Sometimes the guys on 600s follow them for a few turns and then outbrake them into a turn.
I've been the slow guy who gets passed going into the turn, and I've been the guy who gets stuck behind the liter bike in the corners. It's all part of the deal. Fortunately, most people are considerate enough of other riders not to cause them to crash.
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where do i find information on a dress code ??
i ware boots, full face, jacket, gloves. What about pants, are jeans OK or do i need something else. Is it strict about jackets and gloves ??
i have over the wrist bone, but not gauntlet gloves (except for my tpg cold weather ones)
Talked to a local dealer, they told me everyone crashes and full zips might work for tech.
I don't have riding pants, and the crashing was a concern to me. still haven't finalized my dates yet, but looking at 2 including my super newbie first time. Sure don't want to plan on crashing. I'm old, know pavement hurts, and last but not least, i cant keep up with girls. does knowing this help keep me upright ??
Otherwise i can get feedback from some of the great riders here on the board on some rides. Just thought there might be more attention during the "school" days.
thanks much for the time,
Joel
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where do i find information on a dress code ??
http://zaluskyridingschool.com/ars_prep.htm
Rider Requirements - Protect Yourself
1) Medical insurance, you may need to provide proof.
2) Damage free DOT or SNELL full-face helmet with face shield.
3) Riding boots that fully cover the ankle.
4) Gauntlet style gloves with full wrist coverage.
5) Must be at least 18 years of age; mature riders ages 16-17 may participate upon approval.
6) One or two piece leathers, Ballistic nylon suits, or a textile/leather or similar type of riding jacket with at least jeans in good condition are acceptable (full leathers are preferred); back protectors are recommended.**
**Advanced riders must have one or two piece leathers.
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Talked to a local dealer, they told me everyone crashes and full zips might work for tech.
I don't have riding pants, and the crashing was a concern to me. Sure don't want to plan on crashing. I'm old, know pavement hurts, and last but not least, i cant keep up with girls. does knowing this help keep me upright ??
Joel, people do crash at DCTC but they also crash on the street. I wrote an article on crashing for ZARS, but the new web site doesn't have the newsletters yet. You will be fine if 1) you don't start the day with your speed that you ended the last DCTC day, 2) you work on being smooth (not being fast!), 3) you keep your ego in check (don't get sucked into "If they can go that fast, I should be able to"), 4) don't ride over the bike's capabilities or your capabilities. Most riders who crash get plenty of warning, but ignore it. We work to watch for people who are on the edge and try to help them before it gets expensive and painful, and 5) be careful during first session of the day, first session after lunch and the last session of the day (people are tired and want to put in the best laps of the day).
Relax, enjoy yourself and ask questions. Either Brent or I will probably work with you your first day at DCTC.
And don't worry, a ton of us are not as fast as Denise (or Jessica on a 450!)
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Come along with me!
I don't plan on crashing and you will be faster. ;D
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sounds great, jessica called yesterday and we spoke a few minutes and it also helped a great deal.
Back on schedule for the two days to start.
Thanks again
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Excellent!
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in for the 5/15 and 6/5. thanks for the help people.
how strict are they on gloves and the wrist ?? i have some AS that cover the wrist bone so they are higher on the outside, think http://www.alpinestars.com/Octane_SMoto_Glove/pd/c/141/np/141/p/356706.html will these do ??
should find something safer but at the time my jacket was funny. i also have first gear tgp tundra gloves, but they would get hot as heck in the warmer months.
(should have some nice boots by then, if i can make up my mind between the cobra and vertigo)
thanks again,
Joel
(first post with new nic, old one was from auto racing and felt like a putz with you go fast guys :D
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in for the 5/15 and 6/5. thanks for the help people.
how strict are they on gloves and the wrist ?? i have some AS that cover the wrist bone so they are higher on the outside, think [url]http://www.alpinestars.com/Octane_SMoto_Glove/pd/c/141/np/141/p/356706.html [/url] will these do ??
I think you should buy a pair of gauntlet gloves for DCTC. You might get by with the Alpinestar gloves, but why take that chance?
I usually look here first when I need gloves:
http://www.motorcyclegear.com/street/closeouts/gloves
Brent
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hey guys, some of you know me and my riding. i am looking to improve my skills and kicking around zalusky to help with that. I know several of you are familiar with the school, instructors, things like that. i have taken the basic safety when i got my endorsement, but nothing else yet.
Please, anything would be great. Posts here or pm's are good either way.
Thanks much for the time,
Joel
red 09 c14
Joel,
I’d like to offer these thoughts (as you are asking for opinions).
Let me first say, I hate talking about myself. I rarely do (as my Facebook friends can attest) yet I do love riding in group settings.
As a rider who has the rather dubious honor of riding with a LOT of people over the last 10 years (I’d go so far as to say I’m probably one of a dozen or so riders that’s ridden in the most “open forum” rides in the last 10 years), I’ve seen a lot of accidents.
As I’ve alluded to in other posts, so much of motorcycle riding is counter-intuitive and needs to be learned with repetition and practice. As I’ve also mentioned in other threads (Footnote #1) , cornering on the street is a completely different animal than it is on the track.
I know that track instruction does not teach a rider to follow a single tire track but to apex a corner. If you were to ride a 300 miles day in Wisconsin & Minnesota twisties while cornering the way they teach on the track, you will increase your level of risk and increase your chances of crashing. I’ve seen it happen a lot. Track instruction assumes the riding is done in the more controlled environment of the track. The street has gravel, animals, cars, people and many other dangers.
I know that almost all riders (at least the ones I’ve spoken with) feel it’s a net gain to their motorcycling knowledge base to experience a track day, so I encourage you to try it if it’s something that interests you. But having said that, it’s also vital that said riders also have the knowledge and self control to keep track specific skills ON THE TRACK, as they can lead to disastrous consequences on the street.
And I could be completely wrong about everything I've said above. Your mileage may vary. :)
Respectfully,
Greg
Footnote #1
http://mn-msta.com/index.php/topic,359.0.html (http://mn-msta.com/index.php/topic,359.0.html)
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WHAT you mean I can't use the whole road when I go into a corner any more. OK then I will just ride the Goldwing from now on.
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WHAT you mean I can't use the whole road when I go into a corner any more. OK then I will just ride the Goldwing from now on.
LOL. Pretty sure that you can flog that thing pretty good too.
JP
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Greg, makes sense. i thought if i did the classes i could get some closer feedback to habits i may have that could use work or tips to get better . At this point i dont have any plans for track days, just the two school days. (could be the same, never been to yet)
Joel
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Misapplied track skills can be disastrous. I have seen this happen with cars. One cannot treat the road as the track.
However, at least for me, the benefit of track time has been the increased knowledge of the car, what it can do, how it responds at the limit and near limit, how to really look down road and past traffic, etc.
A fast, tricky street corner that previously took up 8/10ths of my ability now barely rates a 3 or 4. As a result I make better decision and can respond much more effectively to unknowns. It's also a lot more fun.
I hope to get the same benefit of spending time at the track on a motorcycle. I do not possess anywhere near the same understanding of bikes as I do cars. I am working on remedying this.
I am certain that some track time and competent coaching is going to improve my riding a great deal.
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Definitely attend Jessica's riding school at DCTC and then BIR when you are ready. You will not regret it for a minute, have a blast and learn a lot. The track can be daunting at first (even DCTC). Seek out a mentor to pit with to show you the ropes and gradually introduce you to track riding - all you need to do is ask.
Throttle control, body position are just a couple of skills that are honed on the track and are directly transferable to street riding. Having raced and logged a lot of street miles prior to that, I am a much safer and skillful street rider having track experience. Both street riding and track riding my intention is the same; hit the apex. In the case of the street that apex maybe a painted yellow line, but will be adjusted based on conditions. The same thought process for the track - just the conditions as to when/how the line is changed are different.