mn-msta.com
General Category => Off Topic => Topic started by: Greg on June 22, 2011, 11:15:55 AM
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This thought occurred to me after reading a recent post. As I didn't want my post to be misunderstood, I thought I'd put it here and let it stand on it's own merits.
Discipline yields freedom. Anarchy or chaos only produce chains. Rules are good.
Greg
(trying to wax philosophical, but failing :o)
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Can you have Discipline w/o Rules? Can you have Rules w/o Discipline?
a.s.
p.s. I too believe that Discipline yields freedom.
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hehe, sweet. This the kind of conversation I hoped to create.
Let's hear more examples pro & con.
And Vander, I agree (somewhat).
"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines. With consistency a great soul has simply nothing to do." Ralph Waldo Emerson.
But on the other hand, To say, "All things are gray" is in and of itself a "black & white" statement ....
I like to say, "Some choices in life are black and white, and some are gray" I suppose the debate within myself then lies with where those choices fall.
Or is that just a cop-out?
Man, good thing I stopped smoking pot ...... :P
Greg
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I'm not sure about discipline leading to freedom. I'd think discipline would lead more to consistency and/or assurity. Knowing you can count on something, simplifies things, but I don't see that this necessarily increases freedom. Communist and Socialist societies are generally more regimented/disciplined than societies governed through Democracy, they are certainly not conceived of as freer.
Forgetting about polar arguments like which form of government is "best", and focusing on results, is where the gray comes in. As there is a tradeoff to any choice. Whether a choice is best is always situationally dependent, not absolute. Weak minds attempt to make choices absolute without regard to situation, to eliminate the need for critical thought. Critical thought is the bain of the weak minded as much as platitudes and "common sense" are the rationales of the weak minded.
Blah, blah, blah ... FWIW
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Unfortunately I think the topic almost immediately has the potential for readers to perceive criticism... it gets gritty pretty much right away.
Financial discipline -- freedom from debt / interest / waste / obligation
Academic discipline -- (hopefully) freedom to choose between people wanting to pay you (hopefully) (more)
I think rules can form (guide? direct?) discipline especially when there is no innate or obvious reason to strive for something. I suppose generally just "following the rules" is a definition of discipline, but I tend to dislike rules, and like discipline. I think I prefer to define my own targets / goals / measuring devices rather than having someone's rules define them for me.
<shrug>
a.s.
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I’m going to try and steer this away from the political end of the conversation ….
In motorcycling, for me, discipline yields freedom. Every time I get on my bike there are 15 minutes of “prep” time (30 minutes if I wash it). I get my gear together. Grab my leather and wipe off the bugs, clean the helmet visor, grab the Ipod, get my “mini” wallet, keys …. Yada, yada. All of these steps are therapeutic “disciplines” for me. I’m thinking about, “riding the bike” while doing this prep work. These disciplines, for me, yield the feeling of freedom in knowing I’m prepared to ride the bike.
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I’m going to try and steer this away from the political end of the conversation ….
In motorcycling, for me, discipline yields freedom. Every time I get on my bike there are 15 minutes of “prep” time (30 minutes if I wash it). I get my gear together. Grab my leather and wipe off the bugs, clean the helmet visor, grab the Ipod, get my “mini” wallet, keys …. Yada, yada. All of these steps are therapeutic “disciplines” for me. I’m thinking about, “riding the bike” while doing this prep work. These disciplines, for me, yield the feeling of freedom in knowing I’m prepared to ride the bike.
Greg,
You could cut that 15/30 minutes of prep work/time in half if you would do the cleaning when you get home from the ride!! ;)
Oh, my bad..... you are looking to have some pre-ride time thinking about the bike/riding. :)
-John
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I’m going to try and steer this away from the political end of the conversation ….
In motorcycling, for me, discipline yields freedom. Every time I get on my bike there are 15 minutes of “prep” time (30 minutes if I wash it). I get my gear together. Grab my leather and wipe off the bugs, clean the helmet visor, grab the Ipod, get my “mini” wallet, keys …. Yada, yada. All of these steps are therapeutic “disciplines” for me. I’m thinking about, “riding the bike” while doing this prep work. These disciplines, for me, yield the feeling of freedom in knowing I’m prepared to ride the bike.
Sounds more like habit, rather than discipline...
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I’m going to try and steer this away from the political end of the conversation ….
In motorcycling, for me, discipline yields freedom. Every time I get on my bike there are 15 minutes of “prep” time (30 minutes if I wash it). I get my gear together. Grab my leather and wipe off the bugs, clean the helmet visor, grab the Ipod, get my “mini” wallet, keys …. Yada, yada. All of these steps are therapeutic “disciplines” for me. I’m thinking about, “riding the bike” while doing this prep work. These disciplines, for me, yield the feeling of freedom in knowing I’m prepared to ride the bike.
Greg,
You could cut that 15/30 minutes of prep work/time in half if you would do the cleaning when you get home from the ride!! ;)
Oh, my bad..... you are looking to have some pre-ride time thinking about the bike/riding. :)
-John
You could save even more time by letting the rain clean your bike...lol
I think depending on what discipline you are talking about and what freedoms-one could argue by being self disciplined you are restricting your own freedoms instead of having the unruly hand of another take those freedoms from you.......but it is so subject to interpretation and even to what your own description of what is freedom and what is discipline--an argument or discussion I have no intention of joining in on. I just wanted to poke fun of Greg at how clean and pretty his new bike has been this year :o
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I’m going to try and steer this away from the political end of the conversation ….
In motorcycling, for me, discipline yields freedom. These disciplines, for me, yield the feeling of freedom in knowing I’m prepared to ride the bike.
As with any discussion about things like "freedom" a lot depends on how we define our terms. Having said that, personally I don't define freedom in that way. Having my bike totally prepared for a ride gives me a feeling of confidence and security I guess, but not what I call freedom. Also pride if I have it looking good.
I do agree, however that it takes self discipline to be consistent in the constant maintenance and cleaning that a bike requires.