You have all participated and have behaved just as poorly as the other forums.

Hmm, I thought it was a great discussion.  What is the criteria for "poorly as other forums"?  Very few forums actually take the time to discuss the various aspects of group riding dynamics and allow all sorts of points of view. 

I still think it's one big Zebco.  But the outcome wound up being very worthwhile. 

New riders to the front only works if the "veteran" riders are willing to follow at a pace they don't necessarily want to run and are also willing and able to "teach" if they feel the need (becasue there no doubt would be the need).

Also, new riders will most likely feel uncomfortable being out in front, knowing there are seasoned riders behind them.  I've rattled many new riders while I rode sweep over the years.  I notice they become preoccupied with constantly checking their mirrors or their blind spot, even though I've made it more than clear that I am giving them plenty of room to their rear.

I agree with Ray that a 500 miler to Slimey Crud (for example) is not appropriate for new or inexperienced riders.  Around six years ago, I rode sweep and pulled three new riders out of the ditch, and didn't even make it to Leland (the third rider wrecked out so I waited with him for his Dad to bring the truck down.)  All three felt pressured to not look slow (didn't ride their own ride) and were preoccupied with keeping a rider in view (did not use the route sheet.)

holy fuck!  whats with all the big fancy words?  shit happens, ppl make mistakes big deal.  i dont see how tony's lil fall has anything to do with the "culture" or anyone.  ive been on some awesome rides with a few of these guys, more then a couple with tony.  i guess unless you were in arkansas following him, or been on other rides with this group, well i would keep them kind of opinions to yourself. 

It's a Zebco.  Nothing more.  Ignore him.

BTW, thanks for letting us know Greg.   I wonder if this would be a good time to chip in for a cheap laptop for Tony. 

Tony, how many years have we ridden together??? How many years has it been since we both had our last major accidents.....I think it was 10 now and they both involved stupid cage drivers.)  I really wish you didn't have that solo crash, because now it means it's probably my turn. 

Hope all is well with you and you are able to manage.  Let me know if you need anything,  Make sure you are healed by Twistar next year.

Paul

(Sarcasm alert)  PS, maybe it's time you stopped riding with groups and get yourself a Gold Wing.  I hear group riding with sportbikes is dangerous on this forum. 

Well almost nobody wants to be in the "slow" group (ego, stigma or any number of reasons) so you have one of the most skilled riders taking 1 or 2 people on a ride and stopping and waiting and riding "slowly" and warning them of dangers in every turn and really just giving a guided babysitting tour....sounds like a great time to me (sarcasm !)

This was really hard to quote out of that whole text. 

Anyway, I disagree with that statement.  I've led plenty of slow groups that wound up being the majority of the riders who showed up.  Sometimes it's really a matter of who shows up than the perceived speed difference to the faster groups.  My pals from the early days of MN-sportbike tend to want to ride together.  Or likewise, I'll ride with a slower group if someone like Brent is leading, because I know my day will not be boring when he is leading.   I have rarely felt like I was "babysitting" slow people and well.....big deal if it works out that way.  Some of us are out to enjoy the ride and sometimes there is enjoyment of helping new people learn how to group ride.  The only time I get frustrated is when someone want's me to work out their fuel mileage for them.  Seriously, you have to know your bike well enough to know how much fuel it carries and your range on a full tank.

Vander - I was simply relaying an experience as a point of humor.  Nothing more, nothing less.  Stop taking things as always having a deeper meaning.

Also, at the risk of being misinterpreted and misunderstood, if I can't see or be seen with the group on a ride, I most likely won't bother hanging around.  .....  I want to see other people in my group and be seen in a group by others.order is great and I love when it happens.

I had to LOL on this one.  My one and only official MNSBR ride, I showed up with my ST1100 while the rest were all sportbikes.  I laughed because I already knew how this "group ride" was going to turn out.  Sure enough, within 5 minutes of starting the ride, I could see all 25 bikes in a train about 1 mile ahead of me in the valley below.  I did my own ride that day.