mn-msta.com
General Category => General Banter => Topic started by: Aprilian on March 20, 2010, 08:29:36 PM
-
Seems to me that MSTA promotes safe riding (Pace, etc) yet we have a controversial picture on the home page.
Nothing rude meant to the capable rider in the photo.
-
Where is the popcorn emoticon when you need one? :D
-
So what specifically makes you think it is controversial or unsafe?
-
So what specifically makes you think it is controversial or unsafe?
it is right above the quote;
"To us, safe riding starts with dressing properly for riding, being a proficient rider, riding witin your limits and riding your own ride. ...Read More "
Yet the rider's knee is clearly in the oncoming traffic lane (as is a lot of the upper body).
I feel part of the "anti-squid" philosophy we have in this group is to ride in your lane, not crossing into the opposing lane just to carry more speed through the conrer.
from the Pace article
6 Never cross the centerline except to pass.
Crossing the centerline in a corner is an instant ticket and an admittance that you can't really steer your bike. In racing terms, your lane is the course; staying right of the line adds a significant challenge to most roads and is mandatory for sport riding's future.
http://www.sportrider.com/ride/146_9306_motorcycle_pacing/index.html (http://www.sportrider.com/ride/146_9306_motorcycle_pacing/index.html)
-
So what specifically makes you think it is controversial or unsafe?
it is right above the quote;
"To us, safe riding starts with dressing properly for riding, being a proficient rider, riding witin your limits and riding your own ride. ...Read More "
Yet the rider's knee is clearly in the oncoming traffic lane (as is a lot of the upper body).
I feel part of the "anti-squid" philosophy we have in this group is to ride in your lane, not crossing into the opposing lane just to carry more speed through the conrer.
from the Pace article
6 Never cross the centerline except to pass.
Crossing the centerline in a corner is an instant ticket and an admittance that you can't really steer your bike. In racing terms, your lane is the course; staying right of the line adds a significant challenge to most roads and is mandatory for sport riding's future.
[url]http://www.sportrider.com/ride/146_9306_motorcycle_pacing/index.html[/url] ([url]http://www.sportrider.com/ride/146_9306_motorcycle_pacing/index.html[/url])
I've always interpreted "crossing the centerline" to mean the wheels of the motorcycle crossing the centerline. As motorcycles lean when turning and the left tire track is often the safest lane position for navigating a turn, it is hard for me to imagine that the not "crossing the centerline" would mean keeping the rider's body to the right of the line at all times. This type of rule would imply that on tight switchbacks, proper lane positioning for navigating a left turn would be to ride the center of the lane or the right tire track.
The rider is completing a greater than 90degree left hander leading to a slightly decreasing radius right hander. Would you suggest a rider approaching this turn be positioned in the center or right track of his lane instead of where he is pictured?
The turn the rider is navigating is a 30mph marked turn. Of course the rider could try to navigate the 30mph turn in the left tire track at a low enough speed so his body wasn't crossing the centerline, but to me this is why we often talk about balancing sport riding fun and safety. Clearly going slower would be safer, but so would staying at home.
Make sense?
-
you could just white out the yellow line :)
-
Good points Lloyd. Where & when was that pic taken you talked about? I don't think I've seen that. You guys are right though....I think the pic is fine & should be taken with a grain of salt so to speak. Every situation is different & the pic in question may have other info behind it that not a lot of us know about. I for sure don't know anything about it but do know that sometimes (even when being a "good" or "safe" rider) you have to cross a line of some sort to keep going. Just my .02 worth.
-
The polls question is slanted in my opinion. No I don't think the picture promotes unsafe riding
I thought the picture was rather tame the first time I saw it
I don't need no steenking P. 'effin C. when I log on here. I get enough of that in daily life
Sanders
'07 BMW GS
------Besides it's a BMW rider, he's probably old and forgot what the center line is for, and where he's going. Cut him some slack.
-
Everything about that picture is right. Remove the painted line. Most of the roads we ride on are less traveled and have no painted center line. He is turning left and his tires are in the left tire track right where you want to be. If somebody comes in a heart beat he can widen his turn, he can speed up, he can upright the bike, he can slow down, all this with out even thinking about it. Now if he was going around a right hander and the tires cross the center line he would have to slow down and then sharpen up the turn and that takes time.
-
I'm disappointed in the lack of drama here. :D
But I am going to say it's not appropriate, just to kick start some drama.
The reasoning has nothing to do with capability of the rider to handle the corner, or the ability to stand the bike up if needed. We all know Larry is very capable rider and most know the picture was probably shot in one of the desolate areas where there is little traffic. But wait....who is "we"? Right now "we" is all the people from the MN-Sportbike and perhaps some MNSBR board readers who are, for the most part, familiar faces/names.
But I'll add to Lloyd's Devil's Advocate side of view, bear with me.....
What if I am a relatively new rider, looking to ride with a group of like-minded people who are into sport-touring, I might be put off by an introduction photo showing a rider at a hard lean angle cutting a precise line. At least I might wonder if this group is strictly centered around sport riding. Without having any other balance, I might decide this just isn't the group for me because I own an ST1300 and a VStrom and rarely put my knee down close the the centerline.
But there are subgroups who do other types of riding here. Dual Sport, Long Distance, BRC/ERC Instructors and track riding are also well represented in the MSTA culture. Perhaps the photo of Larry strafing a nice radius could be complemented with photos of the Dual Sport guys (ang gals) standing in the middle of a dirt road, the instructors at work in their parking lots with the little cones (Brent can wear one), an LD guy out doing a 700 mile photo tag (I've got plenty of those shots, heh) and 5 guys helping Karl rebuild his engine at the track.
Again, this isn't a judgment of the photo of Larry. It should stay, but add some others that represent other riding styles (all with appropriate riding gear.)
-
I've followed Larry a number of times. He's a safe, enthusiast rider--and I'm picky about who I ride with!
Knowing Larry, he probably wouldn't have posted a pic like this to begin with because he's just too humble to
show everyone his mad skills. I say, GO LARRY!! :)
And Paul--great idea about adding more pics to show what all this group represents.
Of course over time we will be able to that ourselves, since the new format is much
more user friendly, thanks to Ray.
Geez. What am I doing on the interwebs. I need to get out there and ride!
-
I've been trying to figure out how to embed some random pic displays in the site, but have yet to figure it out.
Add pics to the site Gallery (http://mn-msta.com/index.php?action=gallery) and once I figure out how to put more pics in the site I'll use them.
BTW PKPK :popcorn:
-
Darcy,
The photo from your 2010 rides when you guys are playing in Carlos Avery
-
I'll say it again, this is a perfect picture. Look at it more closely, I think you can tell that the left part of his body or the bike has not crossed the left center line. He is right on the edge of it. Perfect. Also he is not dragging his knee, not even close. On some bike the seat height is lower that others and it is easier to get your knee down. Remember our name is Sport Touring and he is on the perfect bike with all the right gear on, in the perfect riding position. His head is right, his arms, he's off the seat half way to get his knee where it should be. This is the perfect sport touring position. Now lets talk about Ray sitting backwards on the bike in front on him taking the picture dragging his knee to stay in front.
-
One of the reason Larry picture is so good is that he practises in to off season on this road on his way home from work. But as you can see here he is crossing the center line in some pretty blind corners. This is why I let Larry lead he clears the road for the rest of us. I have tried crossing the center line but I don't feel good about it so I don't do it. I'll talk to Larry the next time I see him and maybe I can talk some sences into him.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Kaj0QyAUoo&feature=player_embedded
-
I have no problem with the pic. The camera angle is not directly head on so I don't even know for sure if any part of the riders body is over the center line.
The tires are a good foot or more in the uphill lane (WI 95) and the rider is looking into the turn so he would know if a car was approaching. I suspect no
car was approaching. I guess I don't see this as controversial.
-
Splitting hairs here.
-
we need more disagreement here. ;)
I for one will speak up and criticize his tire choice and his clothing choice.
It's just completely wrong for the road he is riding. I would have chosen studded tires and maybe a construction orange colored suit.
now someone rip me a new one!!
-
I'm not voting on this based on this one pic. We can't see what is ahead of the rider. I give him the benefit of the doubt that he is using good judgement.
This discussion strikes me as nitpicking.
-
Splitting hairs here.
This discussion strikes me as nitpicking.
Perhaps not, the voting seems split evenly.