"I can definitely identify with Lloyd's sentiment around closing down the forum and rides to "outsiders" as I recognize that it introduces many who are not and will not ever be a good fit for MN-MSTA. "

Is that what I said?
I guess I 'll have to go back re-read (but I do like the forum viewed to logged in members only-perhaps that was the context)

I am all for individuals bringing people that they already know will likely (high probablity) be a "good fit".

I am very much against trolling for whatever bites the line, and then a real em in and we'll see approach. Which is how I percieve the last 2+ seasons have gone.

Also, yes those that "don't fit", "don't contribute" then why are they here? I mean really why are about 200 "members" in name only actually on this forum? For the most part they don't post, don't join rides, don't contribute. Sure there will be "new" members who don't fit on occassion and they will go away or pushed away, sure without a broad sweep net you may miss a few that would be a "good fit", but When I view the memebers list, it is what about 65 that post , perhaps 40 of those that contribute and ride-the rest are just a name....

It would be one thing if you wanted a huge forum name database so you could brag about how your forum is the biggest, or you were trying to sell ad space or something with your ego and/or pocketbook in mind like the other forums do--it is another when it appears all anyone (the contributors) on this forum wants to do is ride with similarly skilled "adult" riding friends, at what is percieved by some as "fast" and for still others at a more "moderate" pace---I still say the two are only a couple mph's apart, I have been on them both regularly.

Just as dinstinction-When I hear "fast" - that equates to someone braking hard and accelerating hard and likely running triple digit speeds. I have only seen that a scant few times on rides with this forum
When I hear John or Paul talk about how slow or moderate they ride. I laugh, I have ridden with both and it is damn near the same pace, minus only a couple miles per hour and maybe 5-10 mph in the more challenging turns-and they both rider faster in the straights than I typically do...stop to stop-the total time would be about the same, perhaps they would even get their first, and Paul has.

Anyways.........

"it is one of the conclusions I have had"

hey thanks for pointing out the obvious-------I already made that distinction

But it is not only myself who feels this way-do you want to look at my pm inbox?

Besides there is nothing about that post that is inflammatory or insulting-it is simply fact.

It is no different than saying that I don't belong on ZG or TA, so bite me. Nice dletion there Greg---I'll let mine ride.

Quote from: Lloyd on September 27, 2011, 09:13:48 PM

Quote from: carlson_mn on September 27, 2011, 08:32:08 PM

^ Ray when I got to following behind you when you led towards the end of the Tri-State Boogie you made going "pretty dang quick" look pretty effortlessly actually.  For myself skill level wise, I would put myself somewhere in the middle with 13 years of riding experience, but being able to follow your lines made for a safer "spirited" pace through CR E and some of those other roads that were completely new to me at the time.

Sounds to me like you were just following and hoping and assuming Ray would lead you through. Not actually taking accountability for yourself and "riding your own ride"......Which is what we continually preach not to do.

You're too quick to assume that.  What I am saying is it is nice to follow someone who is experienced on a particular road when at a pace that I am also comfortable with.  Being human, would I have pushed myself too hard if I was in a lead position?  I try not to do that, but I prefer to follow until I know a road well by memory.

I know how "quick" Ray is, and since you were a first time to the roads following him at his pace. That pace was way over your head. I don't care if you been riding 13 years. There is riding and then there is riding. I know people that have ridden 40+ years that dont even understand braking or countersteering or so many other things, yet since they been riding forever they assume they are "good" riders.
I am not saying that is you, but a new road should be proceeded on with some trepedation and serious caution, regardless if you have someone "leading" you through that "knows" the road or not

Look I am not bashing on you in particular ( I am bashing on a percieved notion, that one can follow someone far more experienced on those roads and likely a far better rider just because they are "leading"), I am just making a point-you just happen to put up the post to prove it on.

Believe me it is no assumption on my part, it is fact.


"Also, new riders will most likely feel uncomfortable being out in front, knowing there are seasoned riders behind them. "

yes that has been my experience. Even on my Introductory rides, they get all ants in the pants nervous. I am not sure if it is becasue it is me behind them or just becasue they know they are being watched??

"In fact, TK and I were bringing up the tail on the Cannon Falls ride-out, and while Lloyd was leading and I think said he never broke 100 ... ah, let's just say this was a perfect example of the "catch up" "problem" (trust me, we didn't consider it a problem) that can hinder new riders."

You are talking about 11 west of that first gas stop. Nothing but big sweepers, one of those kinds of roads where I hate riding, but that was an all MN ride...LOL (and no I never approached 100, even on those huge sweepers where triple digits would be extremly easy to run and maintain.)


New riders to the front only works if the "veteran" riders are willing to follow at a pace they don't necessarily want to run and are also willing and able to "teach" if they feel the need (becasue there no doubt would be the need). While I have done several of these rides, that is not the way I run my rides for when I am out to have a fun, enjoyable, relaxing, refreshing day.

IMO-NO
the people in the back are playing catch up far too often and often are riding faster than the people in the front.

If they ( less skilled) are in the front they dictate the pace and the better riders can actually observe if they start looking erratic or "beyond their limits" and then they(more skilled riders) are good enough to pass and whooo the pace down, before some off road excursion does.

Lassie, Timmy's in the well??

"My secret to a happy marriage? Get in enough trouble to be sent to the garage"

Does this work?

 I give up....it is worth no further explanation if you haven't gotten it by now.
This just fuckin reminds me of the idiotic posts about members bashing on me because I did not want to share my routes and somehow a few of you came to the conclusion that it was I that was ramming it down your throats that you had to not share or whatthefuckever, when in actuality it was you all  ramming it down my throats that what,  I had to share and I argued to respect the route makers desires, regardless of if they want to share or not. but no...........forget it it isn't worth my time or aggrevation