General Category => Safety and Riding Tips => Topic started by: Deplorable, thank you! on August 12, 2018, 12:45:28 AM

Title: making small talk
Post by: Deplorable, thank you! on August 12, 2018, 12:45:28 AM
gee I made the mistake of actually looking at my service records over the past ~65,000 miles.......... specifically looking at Tire mileage and useage... (since new tires etc were done in prep for this weekend riding and I had the log book open)

~Sportbike tires do not last very long~

~So 45 brand new tires, and then a few of them came off and went back on later (track use etc but only counted as 1 tire)
 6 of those were tires burned up doing trackday events. (usually, tires used on track also saw 1100-1400 street miles afterwards on the Q3's...)The GPA's set, an S20evo set and the 003R's set never saw anything but track (each lasting sub 650 miles) and then a set of  S20's (non evo) I rode at VIR for CSS and then in the east coast mountains for 1000 miles combined (400ish VIR, 600ish in the mountains) only managed 479 miles once returned, 1 ride into WI .... 1479 miles total)

~2 rear tires made less than 1300 miles each in AR ( Conti Force Max and Dunlop D208GPA)

******the longest any rear tire managed -- 4,428 miles (Metzeler M3)---if we do not count the Roadtec 01 sport touring model---

the shortest any that did not see track use--- 1188 miles, but that was riding AR on a DOT "race tire"

2 rear tires were pulled early due to nails in them and tossed. 859 mile M7RR and 348 mile PP2ct

~The average life of a rear tire strictly ridden in WI seems to be around  3,159 miles (again slower speeds and being on its side more helped longevity)
 ~The average for rear tires that saw extensive MN riding and some WI riding 2,803 miles

fronts did not fair much better....

*******longest any front was left on-------- 4,747 miles (Dunlop Q3) again we are not including the outlyer sport touring Roadtec 01 that had a clear advantage

the shortest of those never seeing track duty--- 1188 miles in AR, again a DOT "race tire" ---

 The average of the fronts (since some I did change seperately) that solely saw WI seems to be  3940 miles (being on the side and slower speeds helps life)
never did I ride a front predominatley in MN and keep it on when changing the rear......So 2803 miles when mostly in MN

longest life
Roadtec 01..........averaged  7108 (1 lone set, and I actually enjoyed them very much the same as all the sport tires)
M3........................averaged  3770 (4 sets on street- 1 set did see 118 miles dctc)
Q3.........................averaged 3608 (3 sets on street-did not count any track mile tires)
S21.......................averaged 3540 (only ran the 1 set)
PP.........................averaged 3326 (2 sets on street)
M5........................averaged 2985 (3 sets on street, 1 did see 129 miles DCTC)
S20.......................averaged 2756 (2 sets on street)
Q3+...................... averaged 2667 miles
S20evo.................averaged 2420 (only 1 set on street)

I guess I may as well go back to the beginning and see the other 24 tires burned up and really see how they averaged......
be some new contenders in that list;
-Dunlop Roadsmart  (1300 miles and off, hated them, way too hard and stiff on a 400 lb sportbike)
-Dunlop Roadsmart II (2080 miles and off- actually cupping front and did not like them much-thought they were too hard and stiff for a 400lb sportbike, but they were marginally better than RS)
-PP2ct (2910 miles out of 1 set and 3040 out of the 2nd)
-Conti sport attack (2873 miles)
-Conti sport attack/road attack rear combo (3378 miles)
-Dunlop Q2 (4591 miles and 4673 miles.... way more than the Q3 which is also much better mileage than the Q3+)
-also a few more sets of M3 were run throughout.... with some going 4900 miles and others only 3800 miles.... If I look all M3 sets over the life of the bike, they have averaged 4064 miles per set.... " winner "of the sportbike tire longevity war but those Q2's beat them for life, although they were not around long and I only used 2 sets of them
-Michelin power pure......... sub 2000 miles
-oe original D207 managed 4700 miles even with a few dyno sessions

Obviously the M3 was my go to tire and I did notice when the 120/65 was used my comments were better to how it felt/reacted and lived.... but then again about the time I went Ak20's/penske shock I also went 120/70 from then on and made chassis adjustments to suit the tire size....

Here is to the next ~95,000 miles of riding.............
may I burn through another ~70 tires and enjoy every mile..........

 Skew the average down with more track time or skew it up with more Roadtec 01's/sport touring tires
The RSIII is on my short list but given the way I hated the RS and RSII thus far I just haven't taken the leap to go for them....(although I have dozens of happy customers on them.....I am also using AS as a guinea pig for testing them on a 400 lb sportbike, so far so good)

besides with so many new sport tires coming out all the time and I need to test them, I do ride a sportbike afterall.... Hard to jump on testing tires not really designed for my bike or my intended use (just these Sunday rides of fun tire shredding enjoyment)

So what does this have to do with "Safety" and "Riding Tips".......
Well the tires are your lifeline to everything the motorcycle does, it is your connection to the road so make sure you take care of them!

besides air pressure, balance and making sure they are not too old (production date is 4 digits 2318 is 23rd week of 2018) and have plenty of good tread (buy a tread depth guage and actually measure above the wear bars!!!)..........

 Well that is the safety and riding lecture.......... the rest is just fluff to spark some conversation on the forum

Do not be one of these guys like the depicted pictures.......senseless stupidity in spades to ride any of these tires!
Victory with a completely bald front tire
600cc sportbike with cords showing
old 70's honda with tires circa 1980's and well weather cracked

all ridden in this way......ugh

Title: Re: making small talk
Post by: Deplorable, thank you! on August 12, 2018, 12:46:51 AM
Attachments too large, really.....

okay, so you get the most aggregious picture anyways..........

Who in their right mind would ride a 1000 pound behemoth on bald as shit tires..........!!!
Title: Re: making small talk
Post by: Elk on August 12, 2018, 08:47:19 PM
Interesting data.  Fun to see a summary of real world use.
Title: Re: making small talk
Post by: Deplorable, thank you! on August 12, 2018, 09:19:41 PM
So just a quick follow up.........  someoneVINCEwho shall remain annonymous, showed up today with a tire already ready for the recycler......... but he mustered another 490 miles out it............
Smooth edge to edge but no cords..... ugh
Title: Re: making small talk
Post by: vince on August 12, 2018, 10:32:19 PM
Tire management
Title: Re: making small talk
Post by: Deplorable, thank you! on August 13, 2018, 10:40:28 AM
Tire management

I think the leaders pace (since the leader slowed down, kept to the edges of the tire on twisty roads at steady speed and kept you in check) and of course cutting some miles off helped more than anything.......... but that there sets a bad example

prime example of how far not to ride your tire!
Title: Re: making small talk
Post by: sleeper404 on August 13, 2018, 10:51:51 AM
You could just barely see the ghost of what used to be siping on that tire.  Not that you would need any of that in WI...
Title: Re: making small talk
Post by: vince on August 13, 2018, 05:57:09 PM
That's the best used up tire I have ever done. I'm going to keep it like a trophy.
Title: Re: making small talk
Post by: Deplorable, thank you! on August 13, 2018, 07:05:01 PM
Well I gave Vince an "only" ......  half used up Rosso Corsa today, he might be able to make 3 rides with that tire........... lol

Got to wear out that front before putting on any of the brand new sets laying around the garage ;) or some such bullshit

At this rate he will be in the same boat I just went through.......... installing brand new "old" tires......
Title: Re: making small talk
Post by: Deplorable, thank you! on October 03, 2018, 05:26:48 PM
 I spent a few hours looking over some sales data on tires..........

Dunlop RSIII has outsold every other sport touring tire I have sold by a huge margin (more RSIII than all other sport touring tires combined)

when I look at some of the follow up customer data on tire life and thoughts.........
Some riders are getting ~ the same mileage out of whatever tire they ride on (cost analysis shows the RSIII was still the best choice)
A few riders did get a significant mileage bump with a specific tire, or even several sets of that tire (really driving cost of the RSIII for some riders, but others did fair better on PR2 or Pirelli Angel GT or even the Avon offering---- but at the huge cost difference, the RSIII was still the cost per mile economy choice with great feedback and pretty good life)
A couple even got less miles (2 people actually, both ran 2 sets so to not say it was a fluke, one of them was less by 800 miles than his typical PR2 on the first set but less by 1300 miles on the second- he did do more two up/fully loaded on that second set- but given he has been roughly running 6700 and 7200 miles on those........ it was about a 0-14% loss of miles v the 32-45% reduction in cost
tire cost alone
$185 x 2 sets = $370 / 13,900 miles = .02662 cents per mile on the RSIII
$270 x 2 sets = $540 / 16,080 miles = .03358 cents per mile on PR2
$340 x 2 sets = $680 / 14,183 miles = .04794 cents per mile on PR3 (he also ran a lone set of PR4 and they netted him even less miles, so higher per mile cost)
$330 x 2 sets = $660 / 13,860 miles = .04762 cents per mile on Angel GT

I am not saying cost is everything, as we all know Motorcycles are for fun and while cost plays some role, it is not the deciding role- hell it may not even be in the top 10 factors for some.....

Just for perspective;
Load range E tires on the truck
$1120. for the tires- they get 45,000 miles........... that is a .0249 cents per mile cost (much more cost effective than motorcycle tires)

if you look at any ecobox car that routinely gets 30+ mpg and has tires that are sub $400/set and last 40,000+ miles-------if you are looking for cost effective transportation, do not buy a motorcycle!
gear, consumables, routine maintenance costs, insurance etc...  all tolled would be triple or more on most any bike v any reasonably economical car

Smiles per mile, or smiles per dollar spent.........a motorcycle always wins!........... atleast for me and most enthusiasts it does
Title: Re: making small talk
Post by: Mike Duluth on October 03, 2018, 06:47:36 PM
I ran a set of Angle GT's and didn't even get 3k out of them- going back to PR4"s
Title: Re: making small talk
Post by: Deplorable, thank you! on October 04, 2018, 01:41:36 PM
I have seen almost all the sport touring tires run the gammit of sub 3500 miles to over 8000 miles.

I recently had a C14 come in with almost 11k ~claimed by owner, zero proof~ on his PR4's..........
Title: Re: making small talk
Post by: Deplorable, thank you! on April 15, 2019, 06:09:55 PM
Roadsmart III
Dunlop Q3+
Dunlop Q4
Dunlop GPR300's

and then of course Bridgestones S21 etc

all have rebates that end at the end of this month

 This latest snow has almost all melted again ( I did have to shovel out the back of the truck and the top half the driveway since it had turned to pretty solid ice being in the shade)

So riding season can commence relatively shortly once again........

I did see 5 different motorcycles out today when I was running some errands and hopefully Wed/Thur rain will clean the streets back off again.
street sweepers came by before this last bought of a foot+ of snow and the local roads here are full of sand once again.... argh

 I had these beauties get ridden in just before the snow arrived, and he didn't even think he needed tires. Just wanted a new sissy bar and oil/filter and to look over his "new to him" purchase

smfh when the pictures don't want to attach
9 year old original tires on an HD, but the rear tire (shown) had the sidewall rubbing up inside the fender... damn near worn off the "Harley davidson edition" lettering.but they were beyond the wear bars and all weather checked anyways
Title: Re: making small talk
Post by: Deplorable, thank you! on April 15, 2019, 06:18:19 PM
Here we will switch gears.......... the old battery had actually melted the positive post right off it.

I never saw the battery itself, it was originally towed to a HD shop.

but I did see all the melted lead all over the rear brake fluid resevoir and the bottom of the battery box and even down on the back of the engine/trans to pick out of there before installing a new battery

lead melts at what 650ish degrees...
How much electrcial current has to go through that cable to melt the lead off the battery???

we have an electrician in the house, how much amerage to produce enough heat to melt lead?? and could a loan 14a/hr 220cca battery possibly have enough stored energy to have done it before the battery died?

I am thinking he may have tried jump starting the bike from a running car/truck??? (he is not fessing up to anything)
Title: Re: making small talk
Post by: pkpk on April 20, 2019, 06:57:14 PM
Holy glob of molten metal!