The Answer to Whether You Can Join a Ride Posted on the Forum

[GUZZI JOHN]

 "SEND ME YOUR POOR,UNWASHED,SLOW RIDERS" Over the years I've enjoyed introducing many riders to the fun and beauty of the "Hill Country".  If you come upon such wretches send them on a Monday ride w me!GJ

[Tim...]

Am curious as to what you mean by "POOR,UNWASHED,SLOW RIDERS"?

"SEND ME YOUR POOR,UNWASHED,SLOW RIDERS" Over the years I've enjoyed introducing many riders to the fun and beauty of the "Hill Country".  If you come upon such wretches send them on a Monday ride w me!GJ

[Deplorable, thank you!]

Just cause I am feeling charitable for those reading challenged.....or for Tim who clearly is 6 days late and $8000 short.

"Ray (from his other thread)---"Finally, unlike other forums without the history and establishment of the MSTA, this forum is not about creating or establishing a new club or being a part of a forum run for private profit. It is the MN-MSTA's hope that participating in this forum and on MN-MSTA rides will cause people to become dues paying MSTA members. "

(I think this post might have fit into that locked (deleted?) thread about "forcing" others to ride a certain way.)

I was thinking on my ride into work today about the "Ride Your Own Ride" mantra and the recent discussion about organizers and/or fellow group members being too outspoken or judgemental about others in the group, people being scared to make a honest mistake or two in a full day of riding, etc...  It seems to me that the forum's current "understanding" of "Ride Your Own Ride" is very "me"-centric (duh).  Let's say "follower-centric", since that's the spirit of what has been stated by Ray and others who have the most support.  It's subtle (which means you should read that paragraph again and make sure you get it before getting bent out of shape below), but I think this highlights a very important gap that I think Lloyd is working to close.

How does this follower-centric attitude work for the organizer?  Can followers judge people who organize rides and in effect (via public complaints) force their version of Ride Your Own Ride onto group events?  Too long, too short, too fast, too slow, too many stops, not enough stops, not enough socializing, too easy, too hard, etc. etc. etc.  If so, essentially, I think we're putting the burden and "control" on the wrong parties.  People that join an organizer's ride should be prepared to ride that organizer's ride, or something very close to it, or be willing and able to leave the ride clearly understanding that it was not the organizer's "fault" that they couldn't complete it.  Some rides are going to be not well-suited for certain riders, and that is really nobody's fault and actually not even a problem; until people complain that some organizer wouldn't let them "ride my own ride".  Ray made this point clearly in the opening post of this thread before it wandered off the rails into a game of "what if" and being surprised that Lloyd speaks his mind.

One other point that some people may miss is that "you" riding your own ride never automatically means that an organizer want you to do that on their ride.  If "your ride" sucks, or differs from the stated goals in  the organizer's or really anyone else's estimation and you therefore are affecting anyone else's ride, of course there will be tension.  People judge, that's how we survive, and that's not the problem.  Join rides you fit in with, figure out what to change to fit in and make it happen if you don't, organize your own rides, or ride solo -- it's not rocket science.

So, I really want to know what recourse does the forum grant the organizer and/or concerned followers when a person riding their own ride doesn't fit with the assembled group?  We know Lloyd will throw you out, others might leave you at a turn you missed or broke down/in a ditch if you're not hurt and most of us will suck it up and live with you to the end of the ride.  What about when people don't get the message and keep joining groups they don't fit into?

This might be a bit "deep" (or more likely poorly communicated), take some time to think about it...  then try a few groups out while keeping most (all?) of your ideas to yourself and see if you can find a group you like.  If you hit a ride that REALLY doesn't suit you (or an organizer that REALLY doesn't like your riding), act like an adult, inform the group that you are leaving and take off.  If you find a group that's a near-fit and enjoy their company, spend some time getting to know the people in real life and maybe there will be a chance for you to suggest a tweak or two to the way the rides are run, or even better, invite them on a ride you run.

a.s.

p.s. that Tension could be avoided by exactly what many people have been talking about recently; accurate ride postings by leaders, accurate self-assesment by potential followers, new leaders stepping up with new types of rides/routes, extending and accepting constructive criticism as needed, etc., things I hope the forum as a whole is moving forward on.   Also of note, in spite of what we say online, it appears that we basically all agree on all of these points that everyone has been trying to make in various posts / threads, etc.

"

I don't know if the conversation will get much traction, as it's a little politically incorrect, but I think it's an important discussion to have and now's a great time to have it.  From my reading of this and other attempted discussions about the tone or personality of this site, I feel that the "safe and proficient" riding / rides, "good riders on good roads" sorta personality of MN-MSTA is deteriorating.  Lloyd's sub-forum idea seems like one possible / logical approach to kind of masking the uglier side of what we have become -- a launching place for average riders on great routes riding like morons, out of sight of the general public at first.  I think the basic concept is along the lines of putting your best foot forward or you only have one chance to make a first impression.  The trick of course is how to judge things effectively, and while I don't have any good insight into how to do that, there are several well-respected riders here that would be more than capable of witnessing and then judging as needed.  I think if we're honest, there are rides we'd rather not have everyone know we run (perhaps most easily determined after the fact) or mistakenly think that that is how all of our rides are run -- the sub-forum idea was one way to contain that risk / exposure and highlight some of the more polished / by-the-book rides.  Maybe the MN-MSTA rides vs. Ad Hoc rides labelling is all that we need, but I think that's a pretty important distinction that some people, especially guests, won't recognize.

While the sub-forum might not end up being the answer, I think having very real discussions about "how rides are run" and how riders ride on them is the only thing that's going to keep "us" "better" than TA or MNSBR or whatever.  Sure our routes will probably always be unique and likely better, if we don't use up all of the leadership / ride creators and if the great routes aren't eventually over-used and abused, but if we refuse to talk about the core beliefs and how they / we are changing, our routes might end up being the only thing that sets us apart.

I've said it before and I'll say it forever, I'm a better and more "aware" rider than ever before, thanks to people being willing to judge me and others in the group.

a.s.

p.s. just for the record, I join group rides for the group aspect, it irks me when my "riding buddies" are either way ahead or way behind (like more than a few seconds).  I like being part of a group, a formation, I like the way kids stare and dogs bark and dads in mini-vans wish they were out there with us; I like watching people ride challenging roads well and the idea / hope that people are watching me ride (hopefully) well.  I like the sight of a train of bikes streaming like ants around a bend climbing a hill, I like the sound of a wide range of bikes pulling away from stops.  I like the security it brings and put up with the risk it brings.  I don't like spending energy "wondering" anything -- like am I riding too fast for those dropping behind, or will those in front come back for me if I have a flat or something or am I too slow for the guy on my *.*.  I don't like getting passed by anything with 4 wheels and love being passed by a friend that wants to run a little faster or lead an upcoming section.  I don't like being the only one to see things, I want to talk about that eagle, fox, deer, crazy driver, perfect corner or hopefully rare but beautiful great save, and I want to hear what other's thought of those same experiences... experiences, stories and tales that can't be shared when running solo or when the group is "too spread out".


« Last Edit: March 25, 2012, 01:49:19 AM by aschendel » "


 ^^^The most read worthy posts in the entire thread.^^^

and finally the one that brings a little humor amongst all the CRAP...

 

"Being in a total good mood and a smart ass today;

Multiple "private" sub forums...members can belong to one or all-- (The "owner" of that section moderates it themself)

lets see we have the;

1) I am underskilled and don't know it therefore I can ride as good as anyone,section

2) I am super fast. Trust me I am,section...

3) I have no idea where I am going, so you lead,section

4) I am slow and know it and am totally okay with that,section

5) I am slow and embarrassed about it, so I will push as hard as I dare to ride with you guys,section

6) I do trackdays, and the streets are paved just like the track, so lets use it all,section

7) "It is what it is", "I don't need to think about riding, I just ride",section

 Rays section....80-85 for 90% of the ride, start and end in Nelson (oh wait my speedo is what?,,,15 mph off, no way)...oh and if I don't show up--I took the duc and ran out of gas---I'll catch up

9) Vince's section....I will go as fast as everybody else wants to but I will do it following 3 bike lengths back. 70 no problem, 170 no problem, lets go....

10) Paul's section....I do destination rides because I enjoy them...I have no interest in riding "fast" even though my pace often is as brisk as some of the "fast" guys. Plus you better be able to go further than 150 miles on a tank of fuel (unless you are riding a dualsport, that falls under the dual sport exception rule)

11) Rogers section...I like to wick it up especially on the tupperware bike. Come ride with me and we will have plenty of yuks and a great time at all the stops..

12) Denyse's section...Guys, you need to pose for this picture, then we can ride some more.

13) Chris' section...okay we were supposed to leave at 9 it is now 10, lets go already

14) Johns section.....is it Monday yet?

15) Greg's section...Tri- State boogie time. Devoted subscriber to #7 though. Now who has a truck to get me to Arkansas?

16) Lloyd's section... 68-74 mph 90% of the ride and I do not want to wait for anyone, nor do I want to put my feet down at stop signs. I will see you guys for ice cream in 500 miles and it won't be via MN sweeper roads, it'll be some loopdeloop round and round hitting every road imagineable and no I do not care that those 46 miles were sand covered...NO you cannot share my route sheet..

17) Tony's section...I'm with you guys, wherever you want to go. I just want to ride. What? I need a new chain and sprockets, how did that happen...

18) Joel's section....what? me lead....ummm ok

19) Marks section....***the section you are entering has no rides***....

Now I hope everyone enjoys a little humor and little fun being poked at some of the people I like .... I have no doubt they will get a good laugh out of it."


Because they are worth reading more than once, thats why.

[Tim...]

Forget it, i give you Lyold

Am curious as to what you mean by "POOR,UNWASHED,SLOW RIDERS"?

"SEND ME YOUR POOR,UNWASHED,SLOW RIDERS" Over the years I've enjoyed introducing many riders to the fun and beauty of the "Hill Country".  If you come upon such wretches send them on a Monday ride w me!GJ