MotoGP 2012

[Ray916MN]

Ducati has lost its way since 2007. In 2010, when Lorenzo won the world championship after Rossi broke his leg (and still finished 3rd), Stoner could only manage 4th and Hayden 7th. Pedrosa was 2nd on the Honda, but had Rossi not broke his leg, he would have clearly finished 3rd. Yamaha not only had some of the best, if not the best riders, but also had the best bike. Spies managed 6th on it riding for the Tech3 satellite team. Honda on the other hand appeared to have the 2nd best bike as Pedrosa and Dovizioso managed 2nd (would have been 3rd if Rossi hadn't broke his leg) and 5th respectively, and the fact that Stoner finished so far ahead of Hayden (who couldn't best Spies on the satellite Yamaha bike), showed how superior a rider Stoner was. Since 2007 he had been besting his teammates by 3-4 places, but had been failing to finish in the top 3, the Ducati was clearly the 3rd best bike (a nice way of saying it was basically noncompetitive).

For 2011 Stoner and Rossi switched seats and it became even clearer how bad the Ducati was and how good Stoner is. After 3 years of struggling to make the Ducati a winner, his move to the Honda resulted in his 2nd world championship and Rossi was struggling the way Stoner had in 2010.

In 2012 the switch to the 1000cc formula should be interesting. The fact that Ducati, after initial success struggled with 800cc era, the move back to 1000cc negates much of whatever advantage Yamaha and Honda built over Ducati during this era. The switch back also should enable physically larger riders to be more competitive.

Pedrosa 5'3" 112 lbs.
Dovizioso 5'4" 120 lbs.
Stoner 5'7" 128 lbs.
Lorenzo 5'6' 143 lbs.
Rossi 5'11" 147 lbs.
Hayden 5'8" 150 lbs.
Spies 5'10" 156 lbs.

While Stoner is brilliant, I would not be surprised to see 2012 be the year Spies hits his stride and really starts to make waves. We shall see whether those who succeeded in 800 era can be successful with the return of the 1000cc bikes.

[Tim...]

Sorry for the typo, meant BSBK -> British Superbike - Incredibly exiting and competitive racing.

Stoner won last year and in 2007.  As far as I know, he has just those two championships in MotoGP.

Looks like BMW has finally got the Gremlins out of that chassis, and appear to be very competitive in WSBK this year.  Be interesting to see how Edwards does, in MotoGP, on the BMW powered CRT bike, as well as the other CRT teams.  Probably going to be like watching two races in one - the factory bikes and the CRT bikes

Me thinks Stoner will run away with it.  MOTOGP has got boring over the years - much rather watch BSPK or WSBK

Hasn't Stoner won it like 4 out of the last 5 years? 

BSPK = British Superbike?  I haven't watched much of it.  Maybe I should.

I started watching World Superbike when BMW got in it.  There are some great riders, several former MotoGP riders (Biaggi, Checa, Melandri, Guintoli, John Hopkins), and it's more competitive than MotoGP, usually without one rider dominating the field.  Don't really care for the commentary, but there's generally more dicing than MotoGP.  The riders look like they're closer to the edge (which is probably the case), and that makes it fun to watch.

I watched a few FIM Superstock races a couple years ago when Badovini was winning every race.  Now he's running at the back of the pack in WSBK.

Someone recently told me that AMA is where it's at now.

Brent

[beedawg]

Stoner won last year and in 2007.  As far as I know, he has just those two championships in MotoGP.

My fault, sorry.  I meant that Stoner won like 4 out of the last 5 races at Losail.  I was just guessing, but it's actually correct.

2011 - Stoner
2010 - Rossi
2009 - Stoner
2008 - Stoner
2007 - Stoner

So I'll be cheering for anyone but Stoner!

Actually, I don't really care that much about who wins in any race.  I really like to see close races, squeaky passes, and closely-contested championships.  I like to see someone start from eighth place and win it on the last lap.  Some of the least exciting years were those when Rossi had it wrapped up with four or five races left.

[Tim...]

Not certain that this will be a breakout year for Spies, as he has, IMHO, a fair way to bridge the gap with Stoner and Lorenzo.  Not sure how a 1000cc vs 800cc engine will even out the riders with respect to their weight.  Thought MotoGP had a minimum weight restriction similar to thoroughbred racing.  Spies will probably contend for the podium, but I doubt he will be in contention for the Championship.

[Jared]

Do Want.  How much to put this in my front yard?

[beedawg]

Not sure how a 1000cc vs 800cc engine will even out the riders with respect to their weight.  Thought MotoGP had a minimum weight restriction similar to thoroughbred racing.

What I remembered from reading rules years ago was that there were minimum weights, but I thought it was for the bike only, so that a lighter rider would still have an advantage over a heavier rider.  Turns out to be true for the upper two classes (this year at least), but not for the new Moto3.

From http://www.motogp.com/en/MotoGP+Basics/bikes:

The following are the minimum weights permitted:
MotoGP™

Up to 800cc – 150 kg

801 - 1000cc - 153 kg

Moto2™ motorcycle 140 kg

Moto3™ motorcycle + rider 148 kg

The teams may add ballast to their bikes to achieve the minimum weights and the weight may be checked at the initial technical control, but the main control of weight is made at the end of practice sessions or at the end of the race. For the Moto3 class the weight checked is the total of the rider with full protective clothing plus the weight of the motorcycle.

[Tim...]

Thanks for the clarification.  Interesting that rider + weight has been adopted on Moto3 but not the higher classes.  Wonder if this is something that FIM are looking to adopt to all the classes - makes sense to me!

[Tim...]

Do Want.  How much to put this in my front yard?

How big is your front yard?

[Jared]

Hang on...  Let me get a picture.

[Jared]

...

[Jared]

A little ingenuity and $50M and it'll be good to go!

[Tim...]

Still not getting the 1000cc vs 800cc as being a weight equalizer.  I assume we are discussing power-to-weight ratio which is going to be linear considering a change in bike weight and not rider weight?

[tk]

I have to go one record saying Stoner will be champ. If it turns out I am wrong you all should smite me at the end of the season.

[Ray916MN]

Still not getting the 1000cc vs 800cc as being a weight equalizer.  I assume we are discussing power-to-weight ratio which is going to be linear considering a change in bike weight and not rider weight?

The move to 800cc didn't really impact top speeds the indicator of peak horsepower, it impacted torque. Torque is a measure  of turning force, think about it as the ability to overcome resistance required to make a motorcycle move. More weight equals more resistance to turning the wheels to make a bike move or and therefore slower acceleration. Increased torque should reduce weight as a factor in acceleration or drive out of corners. The other limiting factor at present to acceleration is grip. I expect for light riders grip is more of a limiter to acceleration than torque while for heavier riders, torque is more of a limiter. When torque levels become high enough, weight becomes less of a limiting factor to acceleration.

[Tim...]

^ HP though is calculated from torque in a linear equation (HP = Torque x RPM ÷ 5252), weight has nothing to do with it.  Power-to-weight ratio will remain consistent across riders irrespective of the torque (HP) increase. 

At this level, top speed has nothing to do with winning races.  As in F1, it is all about the chassis and managing tyre wear.