Crashes Reported in the Media

[vince]

Just on the way to work this morning I was in road construction zone so traffic was slow, bumper to bumper. The semi in front of me all 8 rear tires were starting to shered.

[pkpk]

Work?  I thought you retired (but somehow kept the work truck.)

[vince]

I had to got to a job site to show 3 people how to do their jobs.

[Ray916MN]

I had to got to a job site to show 3 people how to do their jobs.

http://youtu.be/UneS2Uwc6xw

[tk]

I find this thread useful. At least two incidents of deer encounters have been posted. Times and locations of incidents can be useful info. Keep it going PK.

[pkpk]

I could guess the problem is the sheer volume of reports at times.  I once said the weekends are the worst and the reports obviously bear this out.  The reality of these reports is there is no shortage of ways we can get ourselves into trouble out there.  But each incident appears to be preventable (given the amount of information available.)  It sure shows how much rider training is lacking for many riders.  The lady who crashed when the road changed from tar to gravel for example.

[beedawg]

It sure shows how much rider training is lacking for many riders.  The lady who crashed when the road changed from tar to gravel for example.

Never one to miss an opportunity to play Devil's Advocate, I'll jump on this. 

Yes, sometimes people crash because they grab and lock their front brake when they could squeeze it instead, or they run off the road in a corner when they could have just pressed and leaned their bike a little further.

But most riders don't take training that involves riding on gravel.  I'm not sure that MSF training, for example, would have been helpful in preventing that woman's crash.  MSF requires that all BRCs and BRC2s take place on clean pavement.

Training, in general, has never been shown to be as effective as some seem to think it is.  I read this article the other day:

http://www.me.vt.edu/gabler/publications/TRR-Daniello-2140-2009.pdf

"One common assumption is that trained motorcyclists have fewer
accidents. A review of the literature shows that there is no consensus
for the validity of this assumption."

"Research to date has not consistently supported the notion that
training is either effective or ineffective."

I could write a book about this topic.  I doubt anyone would want to read it, much less pay for it, though.   

Brent

[pkpk]

OK Mr. Devil, do YOU really believe this?  I'll turn the tables some.  What if there was NO training whatsoever?  No BRC requirements at all.  Let's even go further and suggest there is no real requirement needed to prove you can ride to be licensed.  Would you believe the crash rate will stay where they are right now?

Yes, you don't train people to be able to handle an abrupt change from tar to gravel.  Why would you?  But you are training them to think ahead, to look down the road (keep your eyes up).  Are you not subliminally training them to anticipate surprises and have a mental checklist of how to deal with those surprises?  (How fast am I going.  How much braking can I apply here.  Where is the cleanest area of the road for hard braking.  Where do I point the bike.....)  The lady probably crashed because she saw gravel, she stared at gravel, she overbraked while staring straight down to the side of her wheel.  Your training would have her see the gravel a ways back, or gently brake and keep her eyes up if she was surprised by gravel.  I can guess the road did not have a corner right where it turned to gravel.  She would have been fine with eyes up, gentle braking.  I know Brent and Debby would have taught her this. 

[pkpk]

This one makes me wonder why the writer felt the need to report the make of the bike.  Is there a hidden meaning?

Motorcyclist's cash blows across Madison road

Wisconsin State Journal

MADISON — A motorcyclist who said he had just sold a vehicle made an impromptu donation to the median on South Stoughton Road on Saturday, with cash from the sale fluttering into the street, Madison police reported.

Officers were called to the area just before 11 a.m. Saturday, when someone told them money was blowing around the median, according to a police news release. Concerned the loose cash could lead to a crash if someone tried to stop and pick it up, police said the officers searched the median and found some $20 bills.

A few minutes later, authorities said a man on a Harley-Davidson motorcycle pulled up and told the officers he had just sold a vehicle for $3,200 in cash. He was apparently on his way to the bank when he started losing the money, police said.

According to the release, someone caught up with the driver and told him his folding money had come unstowed. The man eventually told police he was satisfied with the cash they helped recover.

[aschendel]

It sure shows how much rider training is lacking for many riders.  The lady who crashed when the road changed from tar to gravel for example.

Training, in general, has never been shown to be as effective as some seem to think it is.  I read this article the other day:

http://www.me.vt.edu/gabler/publications/TRR-Daniello-2140-2009.pdf

"One common assumption is that trained motorcyclists have fewer
accidents. A review of the literature shows that there is no consensus
for the validity of this assumption."

"Research to date has not consistently supported the notion that
training is either effective or ineffective."

I could write a book about this topic.  I doubt anyone would want to read it, much less pay for it, though.   

Brent

I think that "research" fails to account for 2 things: the overwhelming role that bad luck plays in crashes, and the fact that no situation is directly comparable to any other.  Furthermore, extrapolating from "research" ends up at statistics anyways, and when your number is up the stats don't matter.

2 riders, one trained and one untrained, identically sized, riding alongside one another at the same speed on identical bikes have the road change from pavement to gravel at the exact same time.  The one with training slows quickly and confidently but happens to hit a dip or loose spot in the gravel and falls, while the other, who panics and does nothing doesn't fall.  This leads to incorrect statistics.  "Research indicates that panicking, with no training and no gear is safer!"  The fallen rider, sporting quality gear, dusts himself of and the pair sets off again, shortly thereafter, again, riding side-by-side, they crest a hill and find a large Combine occupying both lanes.  The untrained rider again fails to slow quickly and confidently and this time is impaled unto death.  Their family blames the "research" for the rider's poor choices and before you know it, all Combines are required to come from the factory equipped with straight exhaust pipes, for safety.

a.s.

[Jared]

I had to got to a job site to show 3 people how to do their jobs.

http://youtu.be/UneS2Uwc6xw

LOL.  I have had this exact scene play through my head a few times about my old job...

[GUZZI JOHN]

  I've always believed riders need off pavement experience.  One must be able to deal with if not be comfortable on a sliding machine. A bit like when a driver ventures onto a frozen lake to learn about driving on icy roads.  Trail riding also allows the newbie time to acclimate to operating a machine before throwing traffic into the mix. Unfortunately most new riders probably never get that sort of exposure. GJ

[Tim...]

Would the UK approach to obtaining an M/C license work in MN?linky

I am too lazy to do the research, but it would be interesting to compare the number of M/C related accidents/fatalities in the UK and US (not exactly apples/oranges comparison as the UK is far more densely populated).

[pkpk]

All available information for
incident number 12200576.

    Incident Number:    12200576    Incident Date/Time:    6/15/2012 3:56:00 AM
    MSP District:    2200    Incident Contact:    MN STATE PATROL DISTRICT 2200 - (507) 344-2750
    Number of Individuals:    1       
    Number of Vehicles:    1    
                   
    Location:    HWY 60    Road Type:    CONCRETE
    Milepost:    99    Road Condition:    WET
    County:    BLUE EARTH    Number of Lanes:    4
    Crash Type:    RAN OFF ROAD    Divided/Undivided:    DIVIDED ROADWAY
    Incident Classification:    PERSONAL INJURY    Hazardous Material:    NOT PRESENT
                   
    Assisting Agencies:
       
    BLUE EARTH COUNTY SHERIFF OFFICE
                   
     Person 1:    NELSON, DAVID W , 71 , OF BLOOMINGTON MN , DRIVER OF VEH 1 , Phys. Cond. : MINOR INJURY
     

    Vehicle 1:
       2005   HONDA ROAD-STAR 
     
          
    IncidentDescription:    VEH 1 WAS EB HWY 60 IN CONSTRUCTION ZONE. VEH 1 FAILED TO NEGOTIATE CORNER, RAN OFF ROAD. STATE PATROL ON SCENE INVESTIGATING. BLUE EARTH CO SHERIFF OFFICE, LAKE CRYSTAL AMBULANCE AND GOLD CROSS ASSISTING.
            
    Information Complete:    INFORMATION BELIEVED COMPLETE   
    Last Updated:    6/15/2012 5:41:31 AM

[pkpk]

http://www.startribune.com/local/south/159281845.html

North St. Paul motorcyclist dies a day after crash with truck in Roseville

    Article by: VINCE TUSS , Star Tribune
    Updated: June 16, 2012 - 12:58 AM

A 53-year-old North St. Paul man died Friday, one day after the motorcycle he was riding crashed with a truck in Roseville, police said.

Jerry L. LaPlante died at Hennepin County Medical Center in Minneapolis about 8 p.m., Roseville police Lt. Lorne Rosand said.

LaPlante was severely injured in the crash, which left him unconscious and severed his left leg below the knee, Rosand said. LaPlante was not wearing a helmet, police said.

The crash happened about 5:40 p.m. Thursday at County Road C and Prior Avenue. It closed both directions of County Road C for at least two hours as police investigated what happened.

According to witness accounts, LaPlante was eastbound on County Road C when he entered the intersection on a red light and hit the Renewal by Andersen truck as it was turning into a business from the westbound lanes, Rosand said.

The truck's driver, a 39-year-old man from Eden Prairie, was not hurt and was cooperating with police.

Rosand said the crash was still under investigation, which included help from the State Patrol. Preliminary causes, he added, included speed, the red-light violation and failure to yield.

Earlier in the month, state authorities were reminding drivers of all vehicles to share the road in the wake of an unusually high number of motorcycle deaths already this year.

Vince Tuss • 612-673-7692