Why are they not wearing gloves???

[Ray916MN]

There is another reason why people don't wear gloves, as well as pants, and boots and that reason is fashion.

Riders and even non riders all want to wear a leather jacket because of the fashion statement it makes. Even RUBs who buy a bike, scare the beejus out of themselves and sell the bike, always keep their "leather" to prove that they were a biker. Ever notice all the biker wear that at the IMS show, when no one is riding?

If helmets, gloves, pants and boots attained the same fashion status as leather jackets, I think you'd see everyone wearing them and cost would be less of a problem for riders. And this is what is happening.

Brands like Joe Rocket, Fox, Alpinestars, and Icon have done much to expand their sales by making gear fashionable and it shows on the streets and in the attitudes of riders. Used to be the uniform of the Lake Calhoun crew was Oakleys, backward baseball cap, wife beater, baggy shorts and sandals. Increasingly it is some kind of wild graphic helmet and/or jacket from a fashionable protective gear maker. More advertising and presence in the more fashion sensitive parts of the motorcycle community, like the stunter community with spokespeople like Jason Britton is increasing the adoption of safety gear by riders. As much of motorcycling is about conspicuous display, it is a matter of time before people not only purchase "better" gear and more gear to project a more discerning image.

Groups like ours have a roll too. Go on an MSTA ride, notice what members are wearing, notice the riding proficiency of members, notice how much riding experience members have, and how members know the best roads. Think this is the kind of rider you want to be, you'll be more likely to buy and start wearing the same level of gear that most members wear.

Failing that, if everyone emulates Jason Britton, we'll be fine too!

[PKPK]

Used to be the uniform of the Lake Calhoun crew was Oakleys, backward baseball cap, wife beater, baggy shorts and sandals.

"Used to be...."?  Then why do you still dress like this on the weekdays?  Oh yes, we know what you do around Calhoun!     

[mikey]

i guess it takes going down to learn that fashion shouldnt matter when on a bike. my personal favorite is the helmet locked to the side of the bike, shorts, shoes, and tank top, sporting some gloves.  why not just rock the neon speedo and leave it at that. its gonna hurt all the same.

[Vander]

Forgive me if I offend... I often have trouble accurately conveying opinions online and at times I come off grouchy. 

I offer the following to merely be taken into consideration and perhaps a venue to learn something (me too).   



Just to add some perspective, my Harley buddies bitch at me constantly about "those fu*kin' idiot crotch rocket fags"... just sayin'.

This forum stuff is fairly new to me (MNSBR and the like)... I find it tantalizing to my studies in human behavior AND surprising to me as a revelation to the capacity for group on group prejudice and hatred.  It seem to me it's not just the differing biker groups that pile judgments on each others choices in riding style or gear usage; rather FORUMS of differing biker groups.  I have found forums to be like little "group think" factories that isolate an ideology and preach it as law.  It's surprising to me how much these ideologies affect such a traditionally independent group of people (bikers), you know?  I have been affected by it too!  Before MNSBR, I used to be a happy-go-lucky guy that rode with anyone... Harley or Honda/ Helmet or Headband/ Racer or Vintage Rider... and I NEVER had an ill thought.

Now?  I find myself scoffing at helmet-less riders on scooters, even ('Don't you know that 15 mph can kill?!').  And I don't like it...  I have to bring myself back to center and remind myself that ALL of us are taking calculated risks by exercising our passion for riding.  To me the essence of riding is freedom, and freedom is choosing your style of riding, and choosing your level of protection... and I shall respect others choices (or try to).

Perhaps we "forum enthusiasts" need a slice of humble pie: cagers think we're ALL stupid idiots for riding "death machines".

And maybe I'm just full of sh*t... haha.

[Tumbler]

That was a pretty decent post Vander.  It is interesting to see how much on-line forums can impact things off-line.

When I started riding I got the gear that I thought would protect me in the event of a crash.  Of course it helped I was working at a shop & had access to the reps so I could ask a lot of questions about not only what was good but what I could get the best deal on as well!!  Since I started riding fashion or trends have not impacted my choice in what gear to buy or wear.

But thats what works for me...may not be the same for everyone out there.

[dl]

Well after 2 pages of this, I decided to put away my thin mechanics gloves and buy some actual riding gloves for summer use, as I have heavy thick ones for cold riding.I'm pleasantly happy w/ how comfortable these are. I think most people that don't wear safety gear look at riding like driving their car or truck. I mean you wouldn't put on a fire suit, helmet, 5 point harness just to drive down to the groceries store? And on the other hand, if you were gonna run a Vett or camaro on a road track, you'd want safety gear because you know your gonna push it and exploit its performance, and safety becomes more of a concern. So it would seam safety to us is more of a concern as we enjoy the performance of our bikes, but, probably not so much to the guy that just meanders down the road looking at the pretty flowers.

[PKPK]

... I find it tantalizing to my studies in human behavior AND surprising to me as a revelation to the capacity for group on group prejudice and hatred.  It seem to me it's not just the differing biker groups that pile judgments on each others choices in riding style or gear usage; rather FORUMS of differing biker groups.  I have found forums to be like little "group think" factories that isolate an ideology and preach it as law.  It's surprising to me how much these ideologies affect such a traditionally independent group of people (bikers), you know?  I have been affected by it too!  Before MNSBR, I used to be a happy-go-lucky guy that rode with anyone... Harley or Honda/ Helmet or Headband/ Racer or Vintage Rider... and I NEVER had an ill thought.

And maybe I'm just full of sh*t... haha.

I find it tantalizing that somehow you interpreted this subject thread as some sort of genre or group bashing.  It was never my intent and in fact, I started the thread highlighting riders who already are decked out in full gear, yet for some reason chose to skip the gloves.  The assumption was they are riders who seem to already have a sense of their risk factor yet the absence of gloves would contradict their risk mitigation somewhat.

Others may have started down a path of bashing culture, but that wasn't the point at all of this thread.  Frankly I see no problem with the thread.  I believe your interpretation of others posts led you to believe the thread was about segregating groups and putting others down.  If one cannot start a thread to discuss riding gear for fear of as coming across as bashing groups that do not wear gear, then exactly how should we word the content?  Or I suppose I just shouldn't started it at all and we'll let the board wilt away.  Sorry, I'm grouchy this morning.

[Ray916MN]

The propensity to group think, us versus them, we're good they're bad is born out of insecurity and ego in my opinion.

Many motorcyclists seem to be drawn to motorcycling partly because of the "rebel" and "independence" associated with it, and then look to band together with other like minded people. This has always struck me as weird, as if you're truly a rebel and independent, then why the frick do you need to belong to a club? I'd think if you're truly independent, you wouldn't care if anyone else shared your point of view, and you would respect others who didn't share your views, as you would realize if you want them to respect your independent views, you need to respect theirs.

This club/forum exists to bring together people who like to ride miles and miles of the twistiest roads they can find and I hope the lack of respect, judging/prejudice, denigrating, bashing, stereotyping and racism I see on other forums will never become part of this forum and this club/forum will become known for not only for proficient extended twisty road riding and respect and tolerance of differences in opinion.  I say hope, because I'm generally disinclined to use censorship or any other tools a forum admin can use to force the way I think things should be on the club/forum.

[mikey]

wow,  this is all VERY VERY DEEP.  i dont really care what other people wear for gear. its that persons decision. i have a few friends and family members that arent very keen on wearing gear.  yet they have seen my ankle and some of my other battle wounds.  everyone has a choice. i didnt see this thread as a bash on anyone or any forum, just a simple topic of discussion.  Lloyd brought up the zg ride, his observation. i noticed the same,  i also notice the same on slxi/mnsbr's kickoff ride last year.  im sure i could go photograph it again tomorrow, yet i dont really care what others choose to do.

[vince]

Well how do we start  here. I will just talk about myself. My  dad show me how to ride on his motorcycle. I love you dad. Well he never used any safety clothes not even a helmet. So neither did I. When I got my first bike a 50cc Suzuki my mom said I had to wear a helmet. I told her they look stupid and I never whore one. When I got my next bike my dad said I had to wear a helmet. So when we went to get my brand new bike he bought me a really nice open face helmet, they didn't have full face at that time. My dad never did wear a helmet for all the years he road. But from that first day of picking up my new bike I have always whore one. I do find it nice though to once in a while to go down the street with out one and it is nice. So I would say I wear my helmet 99.99% of the time. So at this time this is the only safety clothes that I whore.Then I started racing MX And I had to wear leather pants and gloves and some kind of boot. It wasn't until about ten year latter they came out with cloth pants. I started wearing gloves because my hands sweat-ed so bad when ridding so I whore my MX gloves, been wearing them ever since. When I was 16 I started wearing leather jacket because it made look like a bad ass like the Hells Angels at the time, not for safety. Now later in years I started road racing And I had to buy a race suit to race. Bummer.So even when I road on the street the only safety clothes I whore was a helmet and gloves. If it was cool out I whore a long sleeved shirt. Now some years latter I'm on a ride with Pat Hahn and he calls me a squid. I had never heard that before. So I had to ask someone what that meant. F you Pat. So I started to wear my leather jacket all the time and I went out and bought some good ridding boots. I wear the boots all the time now, as much as a helmet and gloves. Thanks Pat. I am now thinking of buying a full ridding suit. When I am racing I give it all I have and when I am on the street it is much less so this is why I didn't wear much safety clothes. I never thought I would get hurt. I was young. I will say this I have had three crashes on the bike and each time I left in the meat wagon. Each time I had on all of my safety clothes on and even though I was all  broken inside I didn't have a scratch on me. And each time the police and the medics thanked me for this. I think it was because I wasn't dead.

[PKPK]

Each time I had on all of my safety clothes on and even though I was all  broken inside I didn't have a scratch on me. And each time the police and the medics thanked me for this. I think it was because I wasn't dead.

This is very true.  I remember distinctly hearing fire trucks and ambulances pulling up to the scene and hearing the paramedics ask the bystanders if I was wearing a helmet.  Not only were they relieved I had a helmet, but they were extra happy i had a ballistic suit and pants.  I asked a paramedic friend about this later, are they happy because I had the gear and all the advantage to live?  Not really, they just didn't want to deal with alot of blood and gross looking wounds.  I don't think they really cared if I was alive or dead.     I broke alot of bones but had no skin wounds whatsoever.

I know you like the tennies Vince.  I know a guy in Colorado who rode his Silver Wing (scooter on steroids) down to a local store so he wore tennis shoes.  He had a low side at low speed, rather benign.  Somehow the edge of the shoe slashed his foot open and it was a really gross, deep wound.  Three months later he is still dealing with trying to properly heal that deep wound at at one point was worried about losing the foot.   

[Vander]

Gurgle...

Just wanted to make sure that people understood that my earlier contribution in this thread was not to single out anyone, and not to single out this forum... just taking more of a meta-physical perceptive .

I really don't know much about this group; I have very few posts on here and I have ridden with very few people that post here (am I worthy?  )
Sooo... to be clear, I was actually trying to convey what MNSBR has done to me and the culture of MNSBR (I need therapy). 

[PKPK]

Gurgle...

Just wanted to make sure that people understood that my earlier contribution in this thread was not to single out anyone, and not to single out this forum... just taking more of a meta-physical perceptive .

I really don't know much about this group; I have very few posts on here and I have ridden with very few people that post here (am I worthy?  )
Sooo... to be clear, I was actually trying to convey what MNSBR has done to me and the culture of MNSBR (I need therapy). 

Now how shall I word this so I don't come across bashing MNSBR?     It's a bit different culture over there where everything goes I guess.  The problem I had was there was really no way of starting any meaningful dialog without alot of garbage thrown back at me.  I always was a MN-Sportbike kind of guy and will remain that way with MN-MSTA. 

I'm glad to see you over here Vander.  You always came across to me (over there) as a thoughtful sort of dude.  But yeah, it's probably a culture shock because you adapted to the MNSBR way of thinking (which is to say you had to do what you had to do to survive over there.)  Your civil tone in your response and your explanation of the "meta-physical perspective" was a sign you didn't want to instinctively argue with trash talk that seems necessary on that other board, I can dig that. 

Ray made the point that I think sets the tone for this board.  The Sport Touring is a group of like minded riders who have a gathering place and we tend to be, by definition, serious about our equipment and gear.  Thus you will inevitably feel a sense of prejudice in the way we view ourselves in the world of motorcycling.  I have never met a rider on an MN-Sportbike ride who showed up not wearing a helmet and the newbies that didn't understand this were usually shown the door.  Snobbish?  Maybe but it's not that we were biased against a certain rider, we just don't feel comfortable having people not use their helmet around us. 

You did bring up a valid point though, could the thread imply some sort of subconscious bashing of other riding genre?  I suppose inevitably it comes across that way simply because "they" don't wear gloves while "we" do.  Maybe my argument could be worded differently to say....The head, eyes and hands are the most necessary parts of the body that are directly tied to quality of life, why wouldn't riders *at least* do what they can to protect them?  But there continues to be that little niggle of mine where some riders DO wear everything but for a reason I can't understand, don't wear the gloves.  Anyway, welcome and please don't feel compelled to keep quiet from now on because of this.  Disagreements are fine provided they are presented in a civil tone.   

[Ray916MN]

Gurgle...

Just wanted to make sure that people understood that my earlier contribution in this thread was not to single out anyone, and not to single out this forum... just taking more of a meta-physical perceptive .

I really don't know much about this group; I have very few posts on here and I have ridden with very few people that post here (am I worthy?  )
Sooo... to be clear, I was actually trying to convey what MNSBR has done to me and the culture of MNSBR (I need therapy). 

Worthy? Anyone is worthy because there is no bar to entry. OTOH, does everyone fit. Nope.

When I started the original group (MN-Sportbike YahooGroup) in 2000 I tried hard to make it a group for anyone and everyone who like to ride sport and sport touring bikes. The newbs drove out the more experienced riders. They didn't know what they didn't know, felt like the experienced riders should take care of them on rides and tended to not take responsibility for their crashes. The experienced riders got tired of showing up for rides and being pressed into leading groups of riders who complained about ride pace, getting left behind (even though they had route sheets) and all too often crashed. Of course, the experienced riders stopped showing up for rides or being interested in posting to the group. We no longer promote the group as being appropriate for newbs and are no longer broadly promote the group.

Ideally the group becomes the place where experienced sport and sport touring riders share opinions and connect for rides and where inexperienced riders who have the maturity to "ride their own ride" at all times and to be responsible for the consequences of their choices come to expand their riding perspective.

We hope that a core of experienced riders who been on our rides (the group is after all first and foremost about riding) will let other people they enjoy riding with, know about the group. This is a bit different, than the other forums out there, which broadly promote themselves.

How did you find this group and what made you interested in checking it out?

[Vander]

Ohh... just caught it from the MNSBR stuff flying around.

I am much more of a road rider than most of the people on MNSBR (never was a racer and never had any interest in racing)... so I figured I'd at least check out what's up in this place. 
But as I surpass my 20 year mark of having an endorsement I find myself taking things alot slower and not looking to carve up the twisties any longer.

I dunno...

With my involvement on the big MNSBR events and the meetings with MMSAC I find myself wanting to ride alone alot lately... and I'm having a good time with that, for now.

I don't think you guys would want my slow ass dragging behind really.