My Crash, limited time viewing now

[Ray916MN]

The second video makes me cringe in so many ways, I can't begin to comment.

[Aprilian]

I remember when I had more luck than skill.   Unfortunately, I burned through all my luck and had to develop more skill.   I'm still working on increasing my riding skill and finding ways to reduce my risk.   Consequently, I only consider myself an intermediate rider.   For any of the riders who were unfortunate enough to be featured in these two videos, I hope your luck holds until you develop more skill and discretion.  Mike, I know you are learning the hard way, buddy.  For the rest of you in those videos, if you come away from this thread pumping out your chest and claiming you are an excellent rider, well then you truly missed the point.  You also missed the opportunity to learn from other's mistakes.
Santayana said it well. "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it"

[pkpk]

It took me several viewings to finally figure out what happened.  I think video rider sensed the rider behind was almost hitting him and got spooked.  I also wonder why he performed that last shift and just didn't stay on the throttle.

[pkpk]

Consequently, I only consider myself an intermediate rider. 

I'm guessing part of your strategy is to downplay your skill level so you will keep working hard.  I'm pretty certain your better than an "intermediate rider". 

[Ultra_Magnus]

It took me several viewings to finally figure out what happened.  I think video rider sensed the rider behind was almost hitting him and got spooked.  I also wonder why he performed that last shift and just didn't stay on the throttle.

Not sure why i did that to be honest. I think maybe i was torn between braking hard but at the last moment i decided to just take the turn wide.  I took on the tar snake because the oncoming lane was
 full of gravel.

But you are right, when i was starting to look into the turn i saw the rider right next to me in my peripheral, so my planned line was out of the question. Im pretty confident that if i woulda took my planned line he would have smacked into me.

This probably contributed to my crash too. I remeber being super pissed when i was pulling out of that corner and my mind wasnt right for the rest of the ride.

[Aprilian]

Thanks Paul for the compliment    Perhaps because I try to be honest with myself I see all the mistakes I make (and they are mistakes - like crossing the yellow following someone too hard).   I feel like I am constantly improving, so you might be right.  I might be cutivating a "beginner's mind" so that I can see the potential      As the TV program asked, "What is the sound of one hand clapping?"  (you guys born after 1980 need not play)

[pkpk]

But you are right, when i was starting to look into the turn i saw the rider right next to me in my peripheral, so my planned line was out of the question. Im pretty confident that if i woulda took my planned line he would have smacked into me.

This probably contributed to my crash too. I remeber being super pissed when i was pulling out of that corner and my mind wasnt right for the rest of the ride.

That is perfectly understandable.  It's this situation that really has spooked me out of riding with groups of guys I don't know very well.  There is nothing that freaks me out more than sensing a wheel nudging into my periphery right as I enter a corner.  It would be different on a race track, as it's something that you expect.  At least there you can close the door and the rider better get on the binders are you're both in trouble.  But you do not expect that wheel to be that close on the street and it's very unnerving because you do not know how well he can corner. 

[Tumbler]

Mark, your a real piece of work.  There's much I can say, but not worth my time.

Piece of work how?  I would love a PM with what you could say but this is not the place.

Ge I meant no offense by my comment & only speak from experience riding with you as well as what I've heard from others that have.

As many of us pointed out you were not 100% at fault but everyone on the ride played their part in one way or another.

For the record I have nothing against you personally but our riding styles are different so I would prefer not riding behind you but we should all be riding our own ride so that shouldn't matter.

Part of what I was saying in my original post (and that others pointed out multiple times) is that following distance had a lot to do with this incident....not any one riders specific actions other than Mikes.

Nor anything specific about who was in front or behind.  So that's my 0.02 worth & I sort of wish I hadn't said anything at all.  There's a reason I have been on the DL regarding forums the later part of the season.

[Joel S]

It took me several viewings to finally figure out what happened.  I think video rider sensed the rider behind was almost hitting him and got spooked.  I also wonder why he performed that last shift and just didn't stay on the throttle.

Not sure why i did that to be honest. I think maybe i was torn between braking hard but at the last moment i decided to just take the turn wide.  I took on the tar snake because the oncoming lane was
 full of gravel.

But you are right, when i was starting to look into the turn i saw the rider right next to me in my peripheral, so my planned line was out of the question. Im pretty confident that if i woulda took my planned line he would have smacked into me.

This probably contributed to my crash too. I remeber being super pissed when i was pulling out of that corner and my mind wasnt right for the rest of the ride.

well, nothing said you had to continue the ride. you or anyone else is free to pull out if its not going well for you. just let someone else know. or drop to the back and rethink things. i seperated from some people one morning because my comfort level wasnt where i would have liked it, mind elsewhere or speed or something. got back together with them at lunch and had a great afternoon. if i hadnt got back with them , i still had the route, and the sunshine, some tunes, and a smile riding my bike. 
hope this makes sense,

[Ultra_Magnus]

It took me several viewings to finally figure out what happened.  I think video rider sensed the rider behind was almost hitting him and got spooked.  I also wonder why he performed that last shift and just didn't stay on the throttle.

Not sure why i did that to be honest. I think maybe i was torn between braking hard but at the last moment i decided to just take the turn wide.  I took on the tar snake because the oncoming lane was
 full of gravel.

But you are right, when i was starting to look into the turn i saw the rider right next to me in my peripheral, so my planned line was out of the question. Im pretty confident that if i woulda took my planned line he would have smacked into me.

This probably contributed to my crash too. I remeber being super pissed when i was pulling out of that corner and my mind wasnt right for the rest of the ride.

well, nothing said you had to continue the ride. you or anyone else is free to pull out if its not going well for you. just let someone else know. or drop to the back and rethink things. i seperated from some people one morning because my comfort level wasnt where i would have liked it, mind elsewhere or speed or something. got back together with them at lunch and had a great afternoon. if i hadnt got back with them , i still had the route, and the sunshine, some tunes, and a smile riding my bike. 
hope this makes sense,

Oh i know, but i still wanted to ride. But that little incident probably got the testosterone flowin, so i was riding a little more aggresivly than i should have been after that.

[gdawgs]

pretty good comments in this thread.  it has made me reconsider my following distance.  I like to be close to the rider ahead of me because it is a personal preference, but I've never considered it much of a hinderance to them as I usually know them and ride with them all of the time.  but sometimes i forget and creep upon others i'm not so familiar with.  appreciate the lesson.  rock on bitches. 

maybe i need to be clearer......i want to leave further distance in the future.  the above is what i have done in the past, not what i plan for the future. 

[Elk]

I highly endorse long following distances.  Not only are you safer, it makes you a better rider as you need to make all cornering decisions on your own.

I learned this from watching Tony.  He intelligently hangs back and rides his own ride, regardless of what others do in front of him.  It's a great approach.

[pkpk]

I like to be close to the rider ahead of me because it is a personal preference, but I've never considered it much of a hinderance to them as I usually know them and ride with them all of the time.

I have a bad habit of crowding riders I am very familiar with as well.  Notice that I called this a "bad habit".  However familiar and accommodating your "wingman" are about this, it's setting you up for some pretty bad problems for unexpected events.

I can cite two examples of riders who had bad stuff happen as a consequence of this bad habit.  One was a deer taking out a rider and his buddy ran over him and killed him.  The other was a rider who suddenly realized he was about to miss a turn and started braking very hard and his buddy asspacked him because he was looking down at his own GPS (both wound up with an ambulance ride.) 

It's almost a euphoric feeling to ride in close proximity through corners.  I constantly have to fight the urge and remembering how bad things can happen help me to keep backing off.

[Mr. Gadget]

Very good thoughts and ideas shared on this thread - I like to ride on the straights 2 seconds or so behind the person on the left or right in a stagger.

I like to pace ride so the goal is never to use the brakes unless you need to.  If you know the roads and have others in front of you it's real easy to kick back and down shift to set up corners and to do that I usually like to have a 3 to 5 second gap due to getting into a straight line formation on the outside to set up for the corner.   I love smooth spirited group riding 

[aschendel]

I have a bad habit of crowding riders I am very familiar with as well.  Notice that I called this a "bad habit".  However familiar and accommodating your "wingman" are about this, it's setting you up for some pretty bad problems for unexpected events.

I remember a story about a twisty road turning to gravel on a group ride and things got out of hand for a whole bunch of people.  I wonder how much space (and other planning / skills) would have been required for this situation to have been a non-issue.  I think that's the goal, not that we all have a bunch of rules and regs capping the fun for some illusion of safety, but that when it hits the fan on "our" rides, there is no collateral damage, and as little direct damage as possible (see: gear, practice, training, awareness, etc).

It's almost a euphoric feeling to ride in close proximity through corners.

I have a picture of me doing that which brings back that emotion every time I look at it...  what a rush, and how odd. 

a.s.