Why I Belong To The MN-MSTA

[Ray916MN]

I've been an MSTA member since 1996. I have been a Texas and Colorado member as well as Minnesota member. I was for a time the National Advertising Director for the club. I have been the Minnesota State Co-Director since 2004 and one of the organizers of TWISTAR, one of the MSTA's AMA sanctioned regional rallies for the past 6 years.

I joined the MSTA after meeting a couple of members who were having breakfast at a McDonalds before going on a Sunday ride which they invited me on. I can't remember the names of those members and never rode with them again, but the proficiency of their riding made think I should check out the MSTA. Since I joined the MSTA I have met and ridden with hundreds of very proficient and experienced riders all over the country. I have met riders who are vastly superior riders to me. Riders who know more about where the best places are to ride in the U.S. than I'll probably ever know. Riders who I'm happy to have met and ridden with and who I would follow or lead on a ride anywhere in the country.

So why am I an MSTA member. The MSTA is club which can open up your riding horizons in every dimension possible. Be it from riding with people who you can teach you how to ride better, or where the best places are to ride, or who can make a ride in a far away place easier and better, or riders who you can connect with who become lifelong riding buddies and friends.

There are other benefits like discounts on lodging, discounts on gear, a chance to get reimbursed by the club for half of what you paid for any safety gear, or safety related training, a club "magazine" which is published 8 times a year, as well as other benefits, but personally I don't care much about them. The principal benefit is all the great riders and people you meet and the great rides you have with the club. They provide a lifetime of great riding memories and a lifetime of great riding friends.

Right now it only costs $25 per year to be a member, and new members get a free coupon good for registration at any MSTA AMA sanctioned rally. Rally registration, not only gets you a great ride route, but it also gets you food (in the case of TWiSTAR, a Friday night BBQ and a Saturday night All You Can Eat Prime Rib and Chicken dinner) and an entry in the event door prize drawings

[Mike Duluth]

Vince invited me on a Lloyd ride and I was hooked. I had never been on such an organized ride in my life(600m on twisties in one day) what a gas. My first paced ride (who knew)
   For me I would pay much more to have met some of the riders I have met here. The best riders I've known are on this forum. Some of the young ones get alittle over zealous at time and so do (Vince) others, but it's all part of the mix. I will pay my dues and ride with you guys as long as I can.
   In my opinion the dues are not for the forum, it's about being involved with the people and the events they put on.

[Jared]

The principal benefit is all the great riders and people you meet and the great rides you have with the club. They provide a lifetime of great riding memories and a lifetime of great riding friends.

I would echo this.  The people I've met through MN-MSTA are great individuals and great riders.  There are always exceptions to the rule but if you take a step back and big picture it you see that those aren't the folks who make up the vast majority of the organization.  I am an MSTA member because I want to support an organization that brings those types of riders together.  I like the magazine too because it gives me a chance to bench ride parts of the country I have never been to on a motorcycle and scheme ways I will be able to get there one day.

[Hope2Ride]

I'm not trying to be negative but here's my honest opinion as a newcomer. Lately the impression that has been given me is if you are ALREADY a highly skilled rider and have the right attitude then MSTA might be for you. But if you're new or underskilled you might as well forget it. I had hoped this would be a place for me to come and learn only to find out I shouldn't go on group rides? Thankfully I  have friends with a better attitude towards newbies who are willing to.help me learn rather than say "come back when you're a better rider".

[GUZZI JOHN]

  I see your point. Unfortunately the sort of riding done here is aimed at long distance days which usually entails faster machines ie higher speeds. That said a 125 gp bike or an RD250 ridden w gusto could easily keep up or lead in many cases. I for one enjoy keeping the"PACE" down-seldom seeing 75 plus gentle acceleration and braking just to make the ride more economical. I've thought of proposing rides for older/slower machinery that many of us may possess but that may be better received in other groups. My N.W. loop is usually done as was last Saturday's on my GL650. Sometimes I'll go on my grey market 400 or even the 150 Elite. My feeling is that no one should hesitate proposing any sort of ride just to see if others are interested. I enjoy showing folks new territory or learning some from others. GJ

[Ray916MN]

I'm not trying to be negative but here's my honest opinion as a newcomer. Lately the impression that has been given me is if you are ALREADY a highly skilled rider and have the right attitude then MSTA might be for you. But if you're new or underskilled you might as well forget it. I had hoped this would be a place for me to come and learn only to find out I shouldn't go on group rides? Thankfully I  have friends with a better attitude towards newbies who are willing to.help me learn rather than say "come back when you're a better rider".

As much as I hoped that this group might be a group for you, if it isn't, it isn't. We tried about a decade ago to be a group which accommodated new riders and it failed miserably. Way too many crashes. Way too many new riders to the number of members we could get to volunteer to help the new riders. While others might think we should be inviting and welcoming to new riders, and the fact is we can, if we aren't prepared to support new riders and we haven't been successful at supporting new riders on rides in the past when we've tried, what is the point? I think it is better for new riders to understand this, instead of being led on by all the wishful thinking, wanting and hoping which in the end unfortunately in this group's experience has ended with a new riders crashing all to frequently.

Either way thanks for your thoughts. We have nothing against new riders and are all interested in their success. We are also experienced enough to know that for new riders, riding with us can be a great risk for them.

[Aprilian]

We have nothing against new riders and are all interested in their success. We are also experienced enough to know that for new riders, riding with us can be a great risk and/or stressor for them.

suggested addition

[aschendel]

I'm not trying to be negative but here's my honest opinion as a newcomer. Lately the impression that has been given me is if you are ALREADY a highly skilled rider and have the right attitude then MSTA might be for you. But if you're new or underskilled you might as well forget it. I had hoped this would be a place for me to come and learn only to find out I shouldn't go on group rides? Thankfully I  have friends with a better attitude towards newbies who are willing to.help me learn rather than say "come back when you're a better rider".

I'm sure I'd let you join my rides (as if I have any/many of them) if you were honest up front about what types of special considerations (if any) you thought you might need after reading a ride-posting of mine.  My one and only concern is that you were able to determine for yourself along the way if things weren't going well for you and communicate those feelings to me.

My sister doesn't ride any more, in part I understand because she fell twice on a ride I was leading (slow gravel stop and also slow target fixation) and you have no idea how much I regret that I didn't recognize her discomfort well before it became an issue for me, her, and the group.  As "the leader" I had little recourse but to be in front as no one else was willing to ride out there, and as I had not enlisted anyone to essentially tend to her (coach her, encourage her, ride back with her, etc.) she didn't have any fun and perhaps has been permanently turned off from riding... hopefully not, but perhaps, thankfully she wasn't hurt or killed.  Looking back I was so excited that she was going with, but I didn't make the day even 50% about her, and that's I think the only way I could have given her the attention she needed.  With as seldom as I ride I tried to comprimise, do 80% of what I (and others) in the group wanted / expected, and maybe 20% dialed back / more communication than average.  She wasn't comfortable leaving the group and that was the crux of the matter, due to peer pressure, lack of navigational abilities, and an optimism that it wouldn't get worse.

I think BRC + 2000 or more miles + ERC with several 300 or more mile days in unfamiliar territory, planning your own routes (ahead of time) for food, gas and adventure, and executing it is about all it takes to get up to speed; with a focus on the route planning and map reading over mindless miles on roads you know going to gas stations you're familiar with.  I think confidence is inspired by successfully riding roads you don't know (at any speed) and knowing both that you can make the corner directly in front of you and that if you need to get home you can find your way there.  And it doesn't hurt to know how far you really can go on a tank of gas, and that in a pinch you can find a gas station based solely on knowing your present location on a paper map.

a.s.

[aschendel]

Oh, I belong (although I'm not a dues-payer yet I don't think) because mn-msta is "serious".  I want to be a craftsman (of anything I spend time on) and this place seems to have craftsmanship at it's core.

a.s.

[Hope2Ride]

I'm not trying to be negative but here's my honest opinion as a newcomer. Lately the impression that has been given me is if you are ALREADY a highly skilled rider and have the right attitude then MSTA might be for you. But if you're new or underskilled you might as well forget it. I had hoped this would be a place for me to come and learn only to find out I shouldn't go on group rides? Thankfully I  have friends with a better attitude towards newbies who are willing to.help me learn rather than say "come back when you're a better rider".

As much as I hoped that this group might be a group for you, if it isn't, it isn't. We tried about a decade ago to be a group which accommodated new riders and it failed miserably. Way too many crashes. Way too many new riders to the number of members we could get to volunteer to help the new riders. While others might think we should be inviting and welcoming to new riders, and the fact is we can, if we aren't prepared to support new riders and we haven't been successful at supporting new riders on rides in the past when we've tried, what is the point? I think it is better for new riders to understand this, instead of being led on by all the wishful thinking, wanting and hoping which in the end unfortunately in this group's experience has ended with a new riders crashing all to frequently.

Either way thanks for your thoughts. We have nothing against new riders and are all interested in their success. We are also experienced enough to know that for new riders, riding with us can be a great risk for them.

How can you say you have nothing against new riders but also say I don't belong here because I'm new? I have gone riding with some very experience MN-MSTA members and it wasn't any more risky than usual and certainly not stressful. I enjoy it when I can get advice and tips from excellent riders like Lloyd and Vince and am have far less stress when someone experienced is with me. Fortunately for me they don't have to be riding balls to the walls every time they are out on thier bikes and are willing to help educate a new rider rathing then saying, "sorry but this isn't the place for you". And fortunately they can see some value in teaching a newbie to ride safely rather then turning me away to go ride with let's say ZG and learn some bad habits. I understand what you're trying to say but I think it's a terrible attitude to have towards new riders and am really disappointed in the "elitist" attitude of this forum. You come off as "we're so great and we ride safer than everyone else and we have all this knowledge and experience" but it's not all true and you aren't willing to share with anyone not in your clique so who cares how good you are or aren't.

[tk]

Why am I a member? Because I'm basically lazy and I don't like planning or organizing. The beauty of the MSTA for me is that other people do all the work to pull off an event such as Bull Shoals or STAR or whatever and I just show up, register, unpack the bike and check into the room. The organizers provide the routesheets, make recommendations on local restaurants and attractions, and select the hotel/motel.

Plus I agree with what Ray said:

"So why am I an MSTA member. The MSTA is club which can open up your riding horizons in every dimension possible. Be it from riding with people who you can teach you how to ride better, or where the best places are to ride, or who can make a ride in a far away place easier and better, or riders who you can connect with who become lifelong riding buddies and friends."

[Ray916MN]

I'm not trying to be negative but here's my honest opinion as a newcomer. Lately the impression that has been given me is if you are ALREADY a highly skilled rider and have the right attitude then MSTA might be for you. But if you're new or underskilled you might as well forget it. I had hoped this would be a place for me to come and learn only to find out I shouldn't go on group rides? Thankfully I  have friends with a better attitude towards newbies who are willing to.help me learn rather than say "come back when you're a better rider".

As much as I hoped that this group might be a group for you, if it isn't, it isn't. We tried about a decade ago to be a group which accommodated new riders and it failed miserably. Way too many crashes. Way too many new riders to the number of members we could get to volunteer to help the new riders. While others might think we should be inviting and welcoming to new riders, and the fact is we can, if we aren't prepared to support new riders and we haven't been successful at supporting new riders on rides in the past when we've tried, what is the point? I think it is better for new riders to understand this, instead of being led on by all the wishful thinking, wanting and hoping which in the end unfortunately in this group's experience has ended with a new riders crashing all to frequently.

Either way thanks for your thoughts. We have nothing against new riders and are all interested in their success. We are also experienced enough to know that for new riders, riding with us can be a great risk for them.

How can you say you have nothing against new riders but also say I don't belong here because I'm new? I have gone riding with some very experience MN-MSTA members and it wasn't any more risky than usual and certainly not stressful. I enjoy it when I can get advice and tips from excellent riders like Lloyd and Vince and am have far less stress when someone experienced is with me. Fortunately for me they don't have to be riding balls to the walls every time they are out on thier bikes and are willing to help educate a new rider rathing then saying, "sorry but this isn't the place for you". And fortunately they can see some value in teaching a newbie to ride safely rather then turning me away to go ride with let's say ZG and learn some bad habits. I understand what you're trying to say but I think it's a terrible attitude to have towards new riders and am really disappointed in the "elitist" attitude of this forum. You come off as "we're so great and we ride safer than everyone else and we have all this knowledge and experience" but it's not all true and you aren't willing to share with anyone not in your clique so who cares how good you are or aren't.

Ask Vince, Tony, and Lloyd to explain it to you. I think your familiarity and relationship with them will make it much clearer and easier to understand that this not being "against" new riders.

It is simply that most rides are not appropriate for new riders. A short ride route for an MN-MSTA ride is about 300 miles. Total mileage, including getting to/from the ride start and end for most riders is at least 400 miles. The routes are typically the twistiest most challenging roads and organizer can find, so we're not talking 400 miles of highway riding. The club doesn't tell organizers that they have to create these types of routes, the club allows organizers to create whatever routes they want to create. The past routes, organizers including Vince, Tony and Lloyd have created are not typically appropriate for new riders. The club doesn't tell them to create these routes, this is what they choose to do. Ask them, whether the routes they create are appropriate for new riders. See what they say.

I'll bet $100 bucks they'll say they are not appropriate for new riders. The point of saying they are not appropriate for inexperienced riders is to state the fact, not to reflect a desire to exclude anyone.