We Disagree, We Dislike, We Hate - We Behave Civilly

[Ray916MN]

There is no accounting for taste, preferences or opinions. We do not all agree and while respect for each other and our differences is advocated, this is subject to individual interpretation and everyone has their limits.

So, what to do when disagreement and dislike evolves into hate?

This morning the "Karna" feature was turned on. This enables anyone and everyone to either "applaud" or "smite" a member's post without disclosing their identity. The cumulative total of member reactions to a user's posts is shown in their profile and in the member profile panel which shows up with each member's posts. This gives members a way to "vote" on how they feel about another member's posts, aside from posting a response to a post. It allows members to show both their agreement and appreciation and their disagreement and dislike of a members contributions (posts) to the forum. Members can use another member's Karma numbers to understand how a forum member is perceived by other forum members.

Aside from using the Karma feature to make your feelings about another member known, members can also use the "ignore" feature to ignore both posts and/or PMs from any user. As the forum PM system is unmoderated, this ignore feature is the easiest way for members to stop receiving PMs from members they hate.

This is our forum, and I hope the Karma feature helps us celebrate what we think are positive contributions and point our what we think are negative contributions to the forum. I hope members find this feature useful in keeping the forum civil and showing their displeasure when things get uncivil or disrespectful. If it doesn't then the feature will be disabled. If it does, then the feature will remain enabled.

[beedawg]

This morning the "Karna" feature was turned on.

Is Karna short for Karnal Knowledge? 

I shudder at what the gods must think about us mortals trying to quantify our karma with numbers.   

[Greg]

What prevents someone from clicking multiple times (either out of malice or self-promotion) on a post? Does it lock you from clicking multiple times?

My gut instinct is that I like this idea.

[beedawg]

"Sorry, you can't repeat a karma action without waiting 1 hours."

Just like in real life!

[Ray916MN]

John Lennon was likely thinking of something else, but somehow what he wrote is fitting:

Instant Karma's gonna get you
Gonna look you right in the face
You better get yourself together darling
Join the human race
How in the world you gonna see
Laughing at fools like me
Who on earth d'you think you are?
A superstar? Well right you are

Well we all shine on
Like the moon and the stars and the sun
Well we all shine on
Every one, come on

Instant Karma's gonna get you
Gonna knock you off your feet
Better recognize your brothers
Every one you meet
Why in the world are we here?
Surely not to live in pain and fear
Why on earth are you there?
When you're everywhere
Come and get your share

[Greg]

The walrus was Paul. Goo goo ga jube ....

[beedawg]

John Lennon?  Wasn't he, like, some old dope-smoking hippie?  Do we really want to associate with dope-smoking hippies?

[beedawg]

The walrus was Paul. Goo goo ga jube ....

I always thought it was Koo Koo Ka Choo...

[pkpk]

Huh??  Did someone say my name??  I was too busy being a dope-smoking hippie.

[tk]

This Karma thing seems kind of high school to me. Maybe a popularity contest in disguise. I just see it as increasing antagonism. It shouldn't be annonymous. Shouldn't we know who are detractors are? What criteria should I use to bash someones post? Poor spelling (yo Vince), questionable grammar, wordiness, or maybe because they don't ride my brand of bike.

I just want to be on record as opposed to this so nobody thinks I had anything to do with it.

Carry on.

[Deplorable, thank you!]

This Karma thing seems kind of high school to me. Maybe a popularity contest in disguise. I just see it as incresing antagonism. It shouldn't be annonymous. Shouldn't we know who are detractors are? What criteria should I use to bash someones post? Poor spelling (yo Vince), questionable grammar, wordiness, or maybe because they don't ride my brand of bike.

I just want to be on record as opposed to this so nobody thinks I had anything to do with it.

Carry on.

Go Tony.....lol

I was saying pretty much the same thing. Well I did add in perhaps it should be on a post by post basis instead of a accumalative total--have the total in their profile perhaps? Atleast I am in the black....LOL

It is a popularity contest in disquise. I totally agree

[Ray916MN]

This Karma thing seems kind of high school to me. Maybe a popularity contest in disguise. I just see it as incresing antagonism. It shouldn't be annonymous. Shouldn't we know who are detractors are? What criteria should I use to bash someones post? Poor spelling (yo Vince), questionable grammar, wordiness, or maybe because they don't ride my brand of bike.

I just want to be on record as opposed to this so nobody thinks I had anything to do with it.

Carry on.

Go Tony.....lol

I sent Ray a pm saying pretty much the same thing.

It is a popularity contest in disquise.

Yes in some ways it is. And popularity is important as one of the main reasons for the forum is to recruit new members.

While some may not care whether what they post is nice or not, nasty posts do more to drive away prospective members than recruit them. Being civil has its value and how civil people are is generally reflected in their popularity.

[RCKT GRL]

Yes in some ways it is. And popularity is important as one of the main reasons for the forum is to recruit new members.

While some may not care whether what they post is nice or not, nasty posts do more to drive away prospective members than recruit them. Being civil has its value and how civil people are is generally reflected in their popularity.

I don't believe all members are using it in the manner in which you intended to be used.  If it was strictly based on specific posts, then great.  However, I believe people are using it as a way to say f*** you or I don't like this or that person. Like Tony said, it seems pretty high schoolish. 

[pkpk]

I clicked a few applauds, then decided it has no useful application so I'm no longer going to bother.  It only makes sense if it's per posting.

I'm not getting the rationale over it somehow being a recruitment tool.  Would *you* join a forum simply because most people have more Applauds than Smites?  It wouldn't matter to me one bit.  In fact, I might view it as an "mommy moderated" board.

(Please APPLAUD me if you AGREE.)   

[Ray916MN]

Yes in some ways it is. And popularity is important as one of the main reasons for the forum is to recruit new members.

While some may not care whether what they post is nice or not, nasty posts do more to drive away prospective members than recruit them. Being civil has its value and how civil people are is generally reflected in their popularity.

I don't believe all members are using it in the manner in which you intended to be used.  If it was strictly based on specific posts, then great.  However, I believe people are using it as a way to say f*** you or I don't like this or that person. Like Tony said, it seems pretty high schoolish. 

I've used it on several other forums I'm on. It is not intended to be used in any specific way other than for members to be able to recognize posts they appreciate or like and ones they don't. Some people clearly use it to recognize people they like and dislike, but that's fine too. I assume people do the preceding as it would not make sense for people to applaud the posts or people they dislike and smite the people or posts they like.

Certainly there may be a high schooler aspect to Karma. At the same time one of the drivers for implementing it was this:

......
And for the 18 people that have been pming and emailing me on this one issue........Show your real support by--calling Ray, email Ray, send Roger (stinger), Ray (Ray916Mn)or Tony(tk) - you know, the forum leaders your complaints and suggestions via PM.....Or simply post them up,,,,,,,,Stand up and take a stand, offer a solution or something ---Do something that actually benefits the club or truly shows your support for an idea.
( ps.. I love you all---but I have work to do that does not revolve around making the forum better 24/7....I fight on my own behalf, thank you for your behind the scenes support. Now show more in front of the action.)

*I see a few of you have stood up and been accounted for---I appreciate it.*

Following this post, I, Tony and Roger received zero PMs regarding the topic and I don't recall seeing any other posts in support of the position Lloyd was championing. OTOH, I'd be surprised if the 18 Lloyd was referring to aren't using the Karma system. 

When you agree or disagree with something or dislike or like something, expressing it appears to involve too much effort and risk for many people to be public with how they feel. The Karma system makes it easy for people to provide some feedback even though it may be non-specific and general. I'd like to know how many of the 18 Lloyd referred to in his post, have used the Karma system to make their feelings known publicly and why they would do this, but not elect to post or PM on topics of interest to them. This isn't meant as a specific challenge to the 18, it is simply meant as an example of what the Karma system allows, which prior to the Karma system there was a member need not being met.

Of course, if the Karma system becomes somehow wildly out of kilter and ridden with high schoolery, we can always just turn it off, but given all the PMs I get in which people tell me about what other forum members think, but never say on the forum or PM me with, I think we need to provide a vehicle for members to simply and anonymously let their feelings be known.