We Disagree, We Dislike, We Hate - We Behave Civilly

[Aprilian]

I feel that Ray (and other moderators) should have permission to give vacations of increasing length based on severity of "lack of civility" and frequency of being uncivil.  If the moderatos are individually unsure of a particular person's posts, then they can poll each other through email.

No, I am not a moderator.

If the goal is to build MN MSTA and this is our front window, someone does actually have to decide what is appropriate.  If it is a group of people, some whom happen to be members of MSTA, then there is less need to "keep up appearances".

Even if someone "tells it as I see it" and says they "don't suffer fools", if the goal is civility (with an occasional dig for fun), then we have a standard that should be enforceable.   No, not everyone will agree, but I for one don't like the personal attacks (even if the observations and conclusions are in alignment with my view).

Make it so!

[aschendel]

The objective is to have a means of maintaining a civil discourse on the forum in the face of disagreements, dislike and hate. I'm echoing the title of the post to make sure the objective here is not lost again.

In the context of this objective, I think I'm a fan of option 3 (Ray, the link in your post above is a bit malformed), the per-post voting thing, along with #4.  We know and understand that some members dislike each other and that even people who like each other will disagree and possibly communicate in regrettable ways.  Unfortunately I don't think the Karma system gets to the heart of civility.

ci·vil·i·ty
Noun:
   Formal politeness and courtesy in behavior or speech.
   Polite remarks used in formal conversation.

Synonyms: courtesy - politeness - comity - urbanity - complaisance

If we truly and simply want to improve the tone of our interactions I think that direct feedback on specific interaction, with a clear understanding of the stated goal (civility), has the most upside and the smallest possible downside / potential for misuse.

Andy

* edited for non-printing characters in the copy/paste of the civility definition.

[aschendel]

I picked up my first smite after the post above, which I thought was exceedingly on-topic and civil.  Did someone disagree with my vote enough to actively express displeasure with "me"?



Andy

[Tim...]

My guess is that someone did not like the fact that your belt did not match your shoes today!

I picked up my first smite after the post above, which I thought was exceedingly on-topic and civil.  Did someone disagree with my vote enough to actively express displeasure with "me"?



Andy

[Ray916MN]

I picked up my first smite after the post above, which I thought was exceedingly on-topic and civil.  Did someone disagree with my vote enough to actively express displeasure with "me"?



Andy

Get with the program Andy, Applaud and Smite are so yesterday. You could not have picked up an Applaud or Smite today, you could only have picked up a Debby or a Brent.

Personally I'm ambivalent about which one is better to get, but when I went back and forth with Debby and Brent, they didn't argue when I said I thought people would tend to think getting a Debby was better than getting a Brent. Having known them for over a decade, I can tell you it is honestly a tough call. I would be happy getting either.

I was thinking of changing them tomorrow to Linus and Lucy or may be Krusty and Bozo or maybe Kyle and Cartman. My mind reels with the possibilities.

For those who missed it, I also experimented with option 1 just before posting this.

[Deplorable, thank you!]

"For those who missed it, I also experimented with option 1 just before posting this."


That is censorship>>>>>>>>>

How was that post answering Matts posts in any way shape or form uncivil or a personal attack?

[Ray916MN]

"For those who missed it, I also experimented with option 1 just before posting this."

That is censorship>>>>>>>>>

How was that post answering Matts posts in any way shape or form uncivil or a personal attack?

From your (Lloyd's) removed post

"Uncivil and rude are all in ones perception, everyone will have their own opinion on what that is...just like their favorite tire or favorite oil."

1. We can get rid of Karma and not do any rating system, and I can begin to moderate and administrate the board based on what I consider civil behavior. Unlike the rule against personal attacks, I do not have a succinct way of defining civility, so if anyone wants to suggest one to go along with this option, I'm all ears. Without such a suggestion, I'm asking implicitly for everyone to agree to trust and support my judgement on what civil behavior is. No matter how I look at this personally my problem with it, is it is censorship.

It is my perception, and Option 1 can admittedly be viewed as censorship. No surprise, and no justification will be given as it is not arguable.

Option 1 is one of 5 options I've put forth. I'm still open to other suggestions. I'm am not open to uncivil behavior continuing without any management or offset.

[Deplorable, thank you!]

RAy---"I'm am not open to uncivil behavior continuing without any management or offset."



So somehow this is not "uncivil" or a personal attack in your view point?



{Admin edit, this was reported by the poster and was removed as being uncivil before this post was made}

Or this--

Matt--"Coming from the ultimate Troll .... who wasn't there ( never has been, never will be ), blatantly lies (tell me where anyone hit triple digits?), sends hilariously PM's to me as if he's the Chief of Police of Motorcycling - don't you wish you were??, and is obviously obsessed with the way I ride.  I've got a great life and a great hobby of motorcycling, and nothing to defend in my manner of riding.  However I ride is the way I ride.  So go ahead and text your riding buddies and come up with another small-dick response. "


Yep I guess you are right (NOT!) these posts clearly are not personal attacks...yeah right---more sarcasm---

If you are going to pull out the moderation card---then moderate equally and fairly, if not then don't moderate anything.

Hey and since you can quote my post you deleted, send it back to me, so I can re-read it and highlight whatever your perception decided was worse than these 2 quotes.....

[aschendel]

upon close inspection it smells like a smite - screenshot attached.  i still don't think it addresses the stated goals and having picked up two negatives today for doing nothing uncivil reinforces my belief that it is the wrong tool for the job.  i was under the impression that this was a discussion about that - rather than yet another thread where someone pokes lloyd until he posts something that can be twisted into ammo for a future personal attack.

Andy

[aschendel]

as long as we're quoting examples of loaded and easily misunderstood or potentially uncivil comments, i'd offer this one:

Back on topic...

"Ride your own ride", for me, is very situational.  It could be taking over leadership of a "Slimy Crud" ride, or taking over ride leadership from a "leader" who can't follow their own route sheet, or leading a noob around the ABC's, or smelling the roses ride from the back.

You narcissists ...

and this one spiked my meter for a bit but i got over it pretty quickly:

Get with the program Andy, Applaud and Smite are so yesterday.

a.s.

[carlson_mn]

Lloyd I'm going to try to keep this civil and not beat a dead horse anymore.  The second quote you posted of mine is the one I acknowledged as being one of the uncivil posts I referenced in my post above - again a chain of events following your actions. 

Other than calling you a white elephant I'm not sure what offends you in my post above.  You yourself stated that these threads are because of your attitude earlier in this thread.  How about we put it in the past and have a good time using this forum to organize riding, talk about the sport, and possibly recruit members like myself into the MSTA?  If you don't like me as you've stated a million times that is fine, you can ignore myself and others who you've never really met and that is fine.  If you've got something to say I respect your own opinion but when you call everyone an idiot or worse who isn't in your riding clique then that just has no benefit to the forum.

[Ray916MN]

RAy---"I'm am not open to uncivil behavior continuing without any management or offset."

So somehow this is not "uncivil" or a personal attack in your view point?

{Admin edit, this was reported by the poster and was removed as being uncivil before this post was made}

Or this--

Matt--"Coming from the ultimate Troll .... who wasn't there ( never has been, never will be ), blatantly lies (tell me where anyone hit triple digits?), sends hilariously PM's to me as if he's the Chief of Police of Motorcycling - don't you wish you were??, and is obviously obsessed with the way I ride.  I've got a great life and a great hobby of motorcycling, and nothing to defend in my manner of riding.  However I ride is the way I ride.  So go ahead and text your riding buddies and come up with another small-dick response. "


Yep I guess you are right (NOT!) these posts clearly are not personal attacks...yeah right---more sarcasm---

If you are going to pull out the moderation card---then moderate equally and fairly, if not then don't moderate anything.

Hey and since you can quote my post you deleted, send it back to me, so I can re-read it and highlight whatever your perception decided was worse than these 2 quotes.....

The remaining uncivility was reported by the poster over 10 days after it was made and after it was quoted by the poster in his response to the post. As mentioned, in an earlier post in this thread,

4. People can simply report posts they feel aren't civil and once I get a certain number of reports, for example 3, I can delete the post. The problem with this approach is that once people start responding to a post, it becomes much more difficult to edit or delete a post. You can end up having to delete the quoted sections of posts and in some cases this may render some parts of a response nonsensical, so the question becomes whether responses to uncivil posts, which quote uncivil posts, but don't contain uncivil content need to be edited so they make sense.

You received a PM in response to your moderation report, indicating essentially that what is bolded in the preceding was the case.

[beedawg]

How about we put it in the past and have a good time using this forum to organize riding, talk about the sport, and possibly recruit members like myself into the MSTA?

Nice post, Matt.  Classy, even.  You deserve a couple Debbys for that one for sure.

[Ray916MN]

and this one spiked my meter for a bit but i got over it pretty quickly:

Get with the program Andy, Applaud and Smite are so yesterday.

a.s.

Sorry Andy. It was intended entirely as joke.

If we continue on with Karma, the system will be reset to 0 and probably relabeled so whatever whatevers you are receiving are meaningless, in my opinion. I just received a PM suggesting Batman and Robin.

[aschendel]

I guessed that after reading it a couple of times    thankfully before I formed a strong opinion and unloaded on you.

a.s.