Rider Signals when Group Riding

[taman]

My thoughts are to compile suggestions for signals we might use to communicate while riding in groups.

One instance several years ago, the lead rider I was behind was positioned to pass a car on a set of mild rollers. I could see where he couldn't (but I didn't know he didn't see), an oncoming car as it dipped into a roller. Before I acted, he passed the car, but just barely. In retrospect, I think he could have checked his mirrors and I could have flashed him or honked to stop the pass.

I know there are signals used for group riding, http://www.msf-usa.org/downloads/group_ride.pdf and these are often used but may not be universally known and utilized plus would not be effective for signalling the lead rider.

My question is... When appropriate, is it viable to reiterate the above signals or to add signals for communicating basic commands to facilitate safer riding in a group or would this impose too much structure and detract from concentrating on the ride?

Don

[Greg]

Thanks for posting that link. I've never seen it before, but others may have. I can tell you from experience while riding with many folks here that many of those signals are used by "us".
Stop / Turn Signal On / Slow Down / Fuel / Hazard / Refreshment / You Lead / .... I've seen all of these used many times.
This thread should lead to an interesting discussion.

Greg

[Jvs]

Tapping the top of the helmet for a cop is another big one not many cruiser riders and new riders know as well (as msf obviously doesn't teach this)


If there is a new rider or someone who hasn't been with the group it's definitely a good idea to go over these so they have an idea about what's going on during the ride.

Even just watching a few YouTube videos should give you a pretty good grip on this

[Aprilian]

I may be the odd one out, but I feel that "ride your own ride" entails that you navigate the visual terain and not depend on your co-riders warnign of cops, oncoming cars, etc.   

Having said that there is one that I use which doesn't require taking hands of the bars.   If I do a safe pass and can see more of the oncoming lane than the riders behind me, I will stay in the opposite lane to give the following riders a better feel for how clear the oncoming lane is.  Then they can pass and we can keep the group together.

[Jared]

I may be the odd one out, but I feel that "ride your own ride" entails that you navigate the visual terain and not depend on your co-riders warnign of cops, oncoming cars, etc.   

Having said that there is one that I use which doesn't require taking hands of the bars.   If I do a safe pass and can see more of the oncoming lane than the riders behind me, I will stay in the opposite lane to give the following riders a better feel for how clear the oncoming lane is.  Then they can pass and we can keep the group together.

Ian, I understand what you're saying about not relying on others for signals, but I'm curious: when riding ahead of others do you point out roadkill/deer/farm equipment if you come up on it?  I wouldn't ride with people who would need this stuff pointed out to them, but in the interest of courtesy and increased safety I always do anyway.

[Deplorable, thank you!]

 If you have oem signals and your brake lights work properly etc, ( pre ride inspection stuff) I feel little need to do anymore than use them. They are very visible, it is the people with the led's and mini's that you can't see from more than 10' away that clearly need to use arm signals.

As far as road debris etc...I am with Jared, I don't want to ride with people who I "have to" signal that stuff for, they surely should be good enough riders and riding well within their limits to not need me to point it out to them. That said I almost always point out sand or gravel (occasionally when it isn't even there....oops)- out of some courteousness and as a little heads up, so they are more prepared for it than I would have been getting there first.

[Mike Duluth]

If I can signal for road debis without disrupting my own ride I will do it. But most times I just make sure I make it through and hope everyone else can do the same. I like to give a heads up for people, bicycles, ect on the road when I can, mostly to acknowledge there pressents and let them know we do see them.

[pkpk]

I actually become distracted when a rider feels the need to point out every little dollop of poop and dead butterflies on the road.  Seriously, I have peripheral and "look ahead" vision, by the time you see it, I probably have as well.

I recall a ride where I watched four riders in front of me pointing things out left and right.  It looked sort of funny, like they were all disco dancing.  On another ride, with the same group, I was treated to a negative comment by a rider who didn't like the fact I never pointed out road hazards.  Never mind that riders should never rely on someone else to point out hazards.

[Ray916MN]

I'm on the ride your own ride page meaning that you shouldn't rely on signals from other riders or that riders shouldn't be compelled to signal road hazards or other road information for following riders. While sometimes signals may help, I tend to ignore them. Last year I was on a ride with another forum member who had passed a car and he was signaling it was clear to pass in attempt to make it easier for our group to keep together. I could see his eyes and face clearly in his left mirror, and I also could see the oncoming car that he wasn't seeing because he was looking in his mirrors at me...

I'm inconsistent at signaling too and would hate to have someone think they can rely on my signaling if I'm ahead of them and somehow think that because I didn't properly signal something that a following rider had an accident or mishap. Conversely I would hate to have a rider ahead of me have an accident because they were paying too much attention to me in their mirrors. Maintain a safe following distance and the benefit of having a rider in front of you signal when there are road debris or other concerning riding situations is greatly diminished.

One of the reasons to maintain a safe following distance is to give yourself the field of vision and space to respond to something popping out around a rider in front of you. The closer you are to the rider in front of you, unless you're riding side by side CHPs style, the bigger the blind sport they create and the shorter the amount of time you have to react.

[mngir1]

I remember wondering what the "I need to pee" signal was when riding my first 1,000 miler with all men. Fortunately at that point, Roger pulled off for a gas stop and I wasn't forced to get creative.      Sure I could point at the gas tank, but what fun is that?

Signals I most commonly use are: --a foot kick for gravel or roadkill, pointing at the tank for needing gas, a thumbs up to acknowledge another rider's antics or yes in fact I did see that bald eagle/cow in the road/bird nearly take your head off, and my fav--the antlers signal (thumb to ear, fingers spread and waving) for bambi sightings. That one is purely for fun.  I also will tap my brakes several times if I have to slow unexpectedly or there is a major hazard like a tractor in the road.  Brake lights are the best warning signal out there in my opinion. 

If you ride with the same people long enough you develop your own "language" and I love that.  I would hate headsets.  I don't want anyone yakking at me when I'm riding.  It would totally destroy the zen!

~ d

[pkpk]

.....a thumbs up to acknowledge another rider's antics......

Well the dude looking for cans in the ditch, showing the world he has never shaved his back once in his life, made me feel itchy.   

[mngir1]

That WAS funny. As were the on-bike dance moves. 

[Aprilian]

Ian, I understand what you're saying about not relying on others for signals, but I'm curious: when riding ahead of others do you point out roadkill/deer/farm equipment if you come up on it? 

I also will tap my brakes several times if I have to slow unexpectedly or there is a major hazard like a tractor in the road.  Brake lights are the best warning signal out there in my opinion. 

That is the answer I would have offered

[pkpk]

Yep, tap tap tap on brakes to wake half asleep riders and drivers behind me is a big habit.  In fact, there I argue that those who are familiar with my judicious use of hand signals know that if I'm signalling something, there is actually something they need to get alert about something.

I should add that I also do signal turns with my arms ahead of time.  I've been nearly plowed into from riders who were daydreaming so this gets their attention well ahead of time.

[aschendel]

I agree that the base premise should effectively be that they are unneeded, with substantial following distances and focused / aware riders...  but on the other hand, each member could be watching out for the one behind and if they are following kinda close or near-missing things (maybe a contact lens got out of place or they are trying to read their map which didn't get folded right or attached well), a little extra signalling would be a nice thing to do.

I personally like to see simple/common ones (cops, debris, and deer), and I like to see them passed on.

The other signals I use are my body and brake light.  I don't actually apply my brakes much, and don't do a ton of body shifting (although more than many on here I think).  So if I set up dramatically or light the brake light, that would most likely be a signal...  assuming the person behind me figured that out I guess.

a.s.