Vote For How to Make The Forum More Civil

[Ray916MN]

In an attempt to make the forum a more civil place, a week ago the Karma feature was turned on the forum and a discussion http://mn-msta.com/index.php/topic,1063.0.html about the feature and different ways of managing civility on the forum were discussed. This poll is intended to allow the members of the forum to express their preference for how the forum proceeds. Every forum member is encouraged to vote, and all votes are confidential and the forum will proceed forward with whatever the majority prefer.

1. Begin to moderate and administrate the board based on what I consider civil behavior. Encourage people to report personal attacks and uncivil posts for moderator action and to not respond to these posts.

2.Moderate posts based on receiving a certain number of request for moderation reports on a post.

3. We can implement Karma, we can change the way it is implemented, we can change "Debby" and "Brent" to whatever we want, we can make the number a total of the count of the Debby's and Brent's people receive and we can extend the period which people have to wait before they can give a member a Debby or Brent.

4. We can try to implement the system that Ben suggested, http://custom.simplemachines.org/mods/index.php?mod=1890read about it here, so that posts are rated as positive of negative or positively only and users get a "Respect" rating based on the cumulative ratings of all their posts. This may not be possible to do for technical reasons.

5. An unusual option would be to make all the boards in the forum have the same permissions as the safety and riding tips sub forum. This would give every original poster the ability to completely moderate any topic they started, and would mean that each an every thread would reflect the original poster's intent and sensibilities.

[anthony]

Here is another post rating mod: http://custom.simplemachines.org/mods/index.php?mod=2234

If that's the route the forum goes hopefully one of these mods can work.

[hille141]

Ray, here is a rather unique idea I've seen implemented on one forum in the past that worked quite well.  No moderation whatsoever.  People are allowed to post whatever they want (spam and NSFW are the exceptions).  There is none of the moderators favoring one person vs the other or having popularity contests.  Allow absolutely no post deleting or editing.  What you post it what stays up, think before you post something you may regret. 

In a small community like this, we will quickly figure out the asshats and just block them.  This makes your life easier and anyone else who would moderate in the future.  I've seen it over and over again where eventually the one running the board gets sick and tired of the BS that goes along with it.  Luckily, this is a fairly close knit community where civility will ultimately prevail.

Forums are about openness, that's what the definition of a "forum" is.  I've only been following the board for a few weeks now since it has gotten nice out and I already know who on the board I want to associate with and those who I do not.

[aschendel]

hille141's (welcome back, by the way, 2 posts in 2 years might be a record) got a few good points in there (although I'd caution against judging people too harshly based on what you see on here, there are some very long back stories and what you see here may not be exactly what you get in real life).

since we can only choose one, i haven't officially voted yet, but i like variations of 1-4, anthony's other mod and hille141's "no moderation" (although that (or #2) is probably closest to what ray has been doing and it seems like he's looking to change).

i'm an optimist; i'm sure we can all find a way to get along well enough to organize rides, have some online entertainment and enjoy each other's company from the comfort of our own screens in between get togethers.  i would like to see "both sides" of any particular argument be a little more courteous in some situations, if agreement is not an option (and often it's not).  some people are going to have to realize though, that it takes two to tango, and as misused as they may have been, the karma scores did seem to indicate that a few people do have some things to learn about how others perceive them.  to be more clear, from where i sit a 1:1 ratio is nothing to be ashamed of.

a.s.

[Ray916MN]

We have been doing closest to what Sheldon suggested as a way to do things. The only rule we have actively moderating for is no personal attacks. This is about overtly changing the way the forum is managed.

Our issue is part of the reason for the forum is to draw new members, and part of the reason is to provide a forum for MSTA members to be social and put together rides or learn of rides.

I think we need to think of the forum as more like a bar which we operate for the enjoyment of our members and to allow new members to get to know us and check us out. If you're running a bar and you let fights break out and do nothing to stop them, eventually you have a bar filled with people who like to fight and watch people fight. The intent here is to ensure that the forum doesn't become over run by incivility.

[pkpk]

A "Free for All" forum quickly degrades into the worst of worst forums, which eventually I quit participating.  BTDT, never seems to work, no matter how thoughtful or optimistic the predictions.

[mnxs54]

Ray,

I rarely post here so my opinion probably shouldn't be weighted very heavily. I rode with some of you a couple times last summer and, by and large, most of you seen like good people in person. I know we certainly ride differently and for different reasons.

There are lots of forums for folks who ride bikes. Some civil and some not. I avoid the less civil ones because I find I just don't like them. One of my bikes is a Honda ST1300 (flame on) so maybe that's the kind of guy I am. I belong to ST-Owners and I must say that, by far, it's the most well moderated, no BS, CIVIL forum for any activity I've ever been involved with. You might want to take a look at it and see how they do it. There seems to be a zero tolerance for, well, the crap that most other forums allow. I've even seen guys banned for just being trolls. I'm not sure how it's done but I can say they do an outstanding job.

I'm aware that their clientele is, ah, a different demographic than you have here but it's still the internet and you get let's say a diverse group of members. Well, anyway, that's my 2 cents.

One last thing: I coach hockey and my #1 rule might come in handy for you: YOU GET WHAT YOU TOLERATE. I look forward to riding with some of you this summer.

Regards,

Mark

[Duc Man]

In a small community like this, we will quickly figure out the asshats and just block them.  This makes your life easier and anyone else who would moderate in the future. 

 The conversations off the forum has been about how to vote with what if scenarios about a few select individuals. Could so and so still get by the rules if... or if they have enough loyal followers could they...? I defer back to Jason's quote i think we need to figure out a process for not allowing certain people vs how to figure out an ideal ultimate way to make the perfect rule that works and take a look one step before it and figure out why or who is causing the need for this.

 

One last thing: I coach hockey and my #1 rule might come in handy for you: YOU GET WHAT YOU TOLERATE.

Mark's quote is quite fitting as well.

[Stinger]

Much like the good old days.

I hit the delete key or in this case I don't bother reading.

Which is one reason I'm not understanding where all this stuff is coming from, and don't bother explaining it. If I was really interested I would look around. And the answer would be, Oh OK... delete.

Wasn't there an Ignore button at one time?

[aschendel]

I disagree that it's an individual problem, because individuals have people that like them and people that don't.  It's more of a traditional societal problem, IMHO.  If we wanted to target individuals I think we should start with people who's karma scores were heavily negative .  The white elephant, as it were, is that many people want Lloyd to stick around, people who may or may not know or care for his detractors.

There is an Ignore List in your profile that you can add people to (a direct implementation of Jason's idea which has Duc Man's support).  I added Darren to my ignore list on MNSBR and that wasn't too bad of a solution.

a.s.

[pkpk]

Much like the good old days.

I do not recall much, if any, sort of personal battles among strong personalities in the good old days.   Isn't that how Ray got to this point to begin with? 

[hille141]

In a small community like this, we will quickly figure out the asshats and just block them.  This makes your life easier and anyone else who would moderate in the future. 

Glad you joined in when you did Sheldon..its been awhile, welcome back.

 The conversations off the forum has been about how to vote with what if scenarios about a few select individuals. Could so and so still get by the rules if... or if they have enough loyal followers could they...? I defer back to Sheldon's quote i think we need to figure out a process for not allowing certain people vs how to figure out an ideal ultimate way to make the perfect rule that works and take a look one step before it and figure out why or who is causing the need for this.

 

One last thing: I coach hockey and my #1 rule might come in handy for you: YOU GET WHAT YOU TOLERATE.

Mark's quote is quite fitting as well.

My name isn't Sheldon, it's Jason...  Must have me confused with someone else. 

I've ridden on and off with this group for the past 3 years.  This group has by far some of the best street riders in Minnesota.  My thought is if you want to be a good rider, surround yourself with other good riders.   

[beedawg]

Hey, Jason!  Good to see you here, and I hope to see you on a ride this year.  I miss a lot of rides here, but I do plan to do the Slimy Crud Ride this year.

Brent

[hille141]

Hey, Jason!  Good to see you here, and I hope to see you on a ride this year.  I miss a lot of rides here, but I do plan to do the Slimy Crud Ride this year.

Brent

Hey Brent.  I will definitely be on a few rides this year.  I was going to make the April Fools Day Ride but I had a brief short term memory lapse and showed up in Prescott an hour early.  Ended up just putting on a few hundred miles with my brother.  I was vastly underdressed for the temperature so we made plenty of coffee stops and a brunch stop in Ellsworth.  I'm pretty sure we met you guys just north of Pepin as I recognized a few of the bikes.

I'm planning right now on making the Slimey Crud Ride.  It'll be my first time on this particular ride.

[aschendel]

bump, as the kids used to say...

a.s.