Group Riding, Peer pressure and how your actions affect others PART II

[Jam-Bro]

 I agree to a limit.....I still am not the one back there twisting someone elses throttle, applying pressure to the bars to turn at the proper turn point or iniatiating the brakes for them. Personal rsponsibility comes into play and far too many shuck that and think the leader is responsible for everything that happens.

 Personally if I stopped and had a chat with someone (or gave some arm signals) everytime I watched them run over the centerline or stand it up mid corner etc-I would never ride with anyone because I wouldn't get to ride anywhere near how I want to ride... I would not be riding my own ride or anything that would resemble fun to me in the slightest. I do my teaching rides for those kinds of rides...
 Don't get me wrong I have booted people from rides for riding like a douchebag, and I have pulled over to yell at the people too, usually for following too close and/or constantly crossing the centerline......but the fun has definately left then and no getting it back at that point, so now I just call it quits and leave them to figure out their own ride home, at a gas stop or crash scene. Point them in the general direction and bye bye.

Personal responsibility!!!!!!!

You and only you are responsible for you. Others can offer some guidance or assistance if they chose, but that is not their duty.

For some reason, my posts keep on disappearing... Not sure why. Here is one of my last deleted posts.


Peer pressure, ride your own ride, group riding... I read a few of your posts on vision, body pos, etc. and I disagree.

Peer pressure on a group ride? 99.9% of the riders on this forum don't go on group rides to show off or see who's the fastest. People go on these ride to enjoy themselves and their bikes, because that is what it's all about, bikes. Group rides are about safety in numbers and camaraderie. Keeping an eye on and helping each other out. Not many of those "racer types" you speak of, attend the rides I go on. On the contrary, I see very conscientious riders and thus, very few minor incidents. Also, I don't ride because I feel peer pressure to ride. I ride because I enjoy it. So does everyone on this forum.

"Ride your own ride" is just that. Enjoy the road and your bike responsibly within your limits. Enjoy your own ride the way you want to, not the way Lloyd wants you to. For example, on one of your posts, you deride riders that get off on a turn or sit up close to the gas tank. Who cares!!! They are "RIDING THEIR RIDE", not yours Lloyd. Everyone can find their "zone" or their "flow" however they want. If Joe Yamaha wants to stick one cheek, his crack, and half the other cheek out on a turn, so what! It's his choice. He is enjoying his ride. There is no right or wrong here. It's a personal riding style choice an individual makes. I don't really care how someone rides as long as their actions don't endanger others. But you Mister Crabby, want to peer pressure others to ride like you. Not so cool!

Lastly, you may have some good points but it is the way you put them across that makes most wonder what's up. You say something that makes sense and then screw it up by saying something completely outrageous. You want to tell all of us how to do things but accept little input, prooven by all my deleted posts... Read your post above. It's a bit over 2 paragraphs and I counted 12 "I"s. Geez bro!!! It's all I I I. You want everyone to live in Lloyd's world but it is only you in there. My advice to you is, write down your good ideas. Then, remove yourself, your superiority complex, your anger and your condescending tone from them. What is left may be something worth reading.



 

[GUZZI JOHN]

  Well said Jam. "I" want "MY" rides to be fun for others so that they will enjoy the experience and maybe come along again. Although I'm the fastest rider in the known Universe and my bike has no equal "I" try to keep those truths to myself.GJ

[Jam-Bro]

You are funny GJ, but "I" am the funniest!!!
Love the sarcasm...

[carlson_mn]

I don't like sarcasm... so I'm never riding with either of you guys again!   

[Jam-Bro]

Buhuhaaaaa
Me neither. "I" am taking all my toys and going home.

[Aprilian]

Realization! 

There is a big difference for me between riding with one - three friends and offering to lead a bigger open ride with people I have not met/ridden with.  Strangers may not already know that I am a "f@(*tard", but my friends already appreciate me for that quality.

[aschendel]

I almost can't believe you think there is no peer pressure on MSTA rides.  Every ride I've ever been on had recognizable peer pressure at some level...  Do you bunch up behind the people waiting for a clear lane to pass?  Do you make sure that people have a route sheet and can really follow them?  Does everyone know all of your expectations throughout the ride and are you sure they are fully capable of meeting them?  Can you put peer pressure on yourself when riding alone?  Have you ever thought "I bet I can make that corner going 10mph faster..."?

That isn't really what I want to talk about though.  I think as people lead more and more rides they begin to appreciate the unique challenges that being the leader brings.  I've had 4 people crash "behind" me and while I wasn't on their bike making their decisions - the decisions I made and those that they made, combined with circumstances both in and out of our control, still haunt me.  You don't want to be scraping your friends (or their friends, or their father-in-law from out of town on a borrowed bike) up, and you sure don't want your friends to have to scrape you up either, so be vigilant.  Do everything that you can to ensure people you ride with really are comfortable "riding their own ride".  I think that starts with acknowledging that peer pressure shows up for every ride, sometimes it gets there late, but it's always there.

Followers, Leaders and Peers all need to play an active role; and if you chose to ignore signs of people making bad decisions, sooner or later it will catch up with them -- and you.

a.s.

[pkpk]

I don't really agree that peer pressure is part of group riding.  But then I only rode Hope's Cave Tour ride last year where everyone gave each other space and respect. 

10-15 years ago (sorry, here comes the old man again), we never really fretted about peer pressure.  Everyone knew where/who they were riding with and we didn't really fixate on worrying about what others thought.  Any crashes were usually by guys who eventually went to the race track.  The group rides were all about having fun any we usually laughed about the occasional brain farts that led to someone messing up a corner.

[Greg]

I don't really agree that peer pressure is part of group riding.  But then I only rode Hope's Cave Tour ride last year where everyone gave each other space and respect. 

10-15 years ago (sorry, here comes the old man again), we never really fretted about peer pressure.  Everyone knew where/who they were riding with and we didn't really fixate on worrying about what others thought.  Any crashes were usually by guys who eventually went to the race track.  The group rides were all about having fun any we usually laughed about the occasional brain farts that led to someone messing up a corner.

Me thinks you are viewing the past through rose colored glasses. I suspect many of these same concerns (I wouldn't call it "peer pressure" though) were thought about then, there just wasn't this easy a venue to discuss them.

[pkpk]

Well we had our pre ride parking lot meeting that reminded everyone to ride their own ride.  That would be the point where people were already deciding whom to ride with.  One thing I can say that is different now versus then is we would stagger the start with each cluster leaving at their own leisure and not one big long train out of the parking lot.  But outside of that early pre-ride stuff, there was no fixation on peer pressure (that I know of) the rest of the day.  But maybe that's just me. 

I also think there was a broader age range, skill level and even bike type back then.  There were older riders on luxo-touring rigs and sportbikes, young riders on sportbikes and rat bikes that we all wondered if they would make it through the whole ride and newbies on cruisers.  Rose colored glasses, maybe but it just didn't seem like there were any need for peer pressure.  The newbies on cruisers knew they were not going to keep up with anyone with advanced skill levels (and they never tried.) 

[carlson_mn]

Well we had our pre ride parking lot meeting that reminded everyone to ride their own ride.  That would be the point where people were already deciding whom to ride with.  One thing I can say that is different now versus then is we would stagger the start with each cluster leaving at their own leisure and not one big long train out of the parking lot.  But outside of that early pre-ride stuff, there was no fixation on peer pressure (that I know of) the rest of the day.  But maybe that's just me. 

I also think there was a broader age range, skill level and even bike type back then.  There were older riders on luxo-touring rigs and sportbikes, young riders on sportbikes and rat bikes that we all wondered if they would make it through the whole ride and newbies on cruisers.  Rose colored glasses, maybe but it just didn't seem like there were any need for peer pressure.  The newbies on cruisers knew they were not going to keep up with anyone with advanced skill levels (and they never tried.) 

I'm a noob but that's about how it is now... most rides I am on are not more than 6 riders so no need to split up.  Bigger groups we have split up and staggered about 5-10 minutes.  No cruisers really show up though... mostly super sports no doubt but Joel and I represent the ST a little bit

[pkpk]

.....but Joel and I represent the ST a little bit

You need bigger bellies and a preoccupation with pie stops. 

[aschendel]

I think the point I was trying to make was more philosophical.  Thinking of peer pressure as a single thing that people (kids, mostly, right?) do or don't do to others is insufficient.  Thinking about it like something that can be addressed in a pre-ride meeting or our "ride your own ride" mantra and then "it won't happen on this ride" is also inadequate.

This topic is particularly difficult to discuss because our perspective is naturally "backwards".  Even though he wants to, Paul can't say whether or not Hope felt any pressure (I believe I would have), and similarly Jamie can't say the people on his rides did or didn't feel pressured.  Each person can only speak to the pressure which they personally felt, consciously recognized and subsequently admitted.  Unfortunately there are many times we fail to even realize it's happening and even if we recognize it we likely won't admit it (due to peer pressure, ironically enough).

In my experience, pressures come and go, each situation encountered by participants on a ride may lead to or involve different types of pressure. There are thousands (millions? infinite?) of tiny opportunities during each ride where each individual rider will take an action in response to the information they have at their disposal.  Failing to observe the basic fact that a huge amount of that information comes from "the group" really does show how far we are from understanding the dynamics of group riding and human interaction in any form.

Jamie is right to point out that each of us expressing our opinions is peer pressure... (although he may have overlooked that he was doing the same thing as Lloyd)  How often do we follow the loudest or most charismatic leader without thinking?  I think it is very important to carefully and conscientiously evaluate the information we have.  Sometimes we need to accept input from a "negative" source...  maybe a "close call" or a person we don't care for gives us feedback.  And even more importantly, I think the topic of this thread was something along the lines that we each need to be more careful about the information we are giving to those around us.  Do you *know* how your comments and actions (even the seemingly insignificant ones) are going to affect those around you?  Of course not - only once they receive that information from you and process it along with the rest of the stimulation they have can they decide how to react - so play it a little safer, be a little more courteous, be a lot more gracious, and give yourself a little more time to respond.

a.s.

[carlson_mn]

[Aprilian]

.....but Joel and I represent the ST a little bit

You need bigger bellies and a preoccupation with pie stops. 

What about scragly gray beards?