How Can We Make 2011 A Crash Free Year?

[Greg]

Greg, with all due respect you confuse me, in one post you say

It's always possible to find a person who has an opinion that may differ from another persons choice they made.

then you turn around and say

No "crashes" are inevitable unless very poor choices are made.

what I am reading is in one thread your saying that a persons choice to ride on bad tires is there opinion, and they should not be called on it, then you turn around and say that crashes are not inevitable unless very poor choices are made, after just saying it was there own choice.

Chris,
  I'm sorry you're going down the road of "gotcha" politics. Feel free to scour my posts at all 3 major forums (same nik everywhere) and I'm sure you'll be able to uncover more inconsistencies.
  I'll gladly discuss this at greater lengthy on any future rides as past experience (10 years on motorcycle forums) has taught me points made in a post can be misunderstood. (case in point  )

Greg 

A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.
Ralph Waldo Emerson

[flyinlow]

Just curious... how many of you regularly hit triple digit speeds on your rides? Even for a moment... 
Are triple digits an expectation on your rides?

I don't, I rarely get over 80-85mph

[Greg]

Just curious... how many of you regularly hit triple digit speeds on your rides? Even for a moment... 
Are triple digits an expectation on your rides?

I haven't regularly hit 100mph on rides in several years. I didn't once yesterday.

"Are triple digits an expectation on your rides?"   Of course not.   Route sheets / ride your own ride / ad nauseam.

[tk]

Just curious... how many of you regularly hit triple digit speeds on your rides? Even for a moment... 
Are triple digits an expectation on your rides?

PM sent!

[aschendel]

Just curious... how many of you regularly hit triple digit speeds on your rides? Even for a moment... 
Are triple digits an expectation on your rides?

PM sent!

Hey now!!  lol

I've followed you and thought it was a pretty enjoyable place to be.

a.s.

[Deplorable, thank you!]

PM sent as well


But my forum answer, group rides I adhere strictly to a "pace" ride and only on very few select roads will I approach that speed-but refuse to surpass it. And I do expect others to ride "pace" or less on my rides...I frown on people who try to pass me and take over my rides or blast down some road cuz they think they know it better etc.... If I on someone elses ride and they ride too fast (or too slow) I always have the option to ride the ride on my own at my own pace how I want........this is what this forum and our rides is (or should be) all about--RIDE YOUR OWN RIDE, THUS THE ROUTE SHEETS, AT NAUSEA....LOL

Riding by myself, I ride how my mood and conditions dictate.....more times than not it is still pace, manytimes less than pace, occassionally more

I personally hugely frown upon any triple digit speeds on a "group ride" (really anytime, but I can't cast too many stones), as far too many will be hard pressed to keep that pace without crossing the yellow, drifting into oncoming trafic lanes, excessive braking and excessive acceleration....etc.........It just opens up an entirely new level of dangers and risks, and unwanted attention !

I hate to say it but......if you need to ride in excess of triple digits, you need to find a closed course circuit to ride on and should give up street riding (for your own safety if for no other reason, although I could list many !)

[Ray916MN]

Just curious... how many of you regularly hit triple digit speeds on your rides? Even for a moment... 
Are triple digits an expectation on your rides?

I virtually never hit triple digit speeds on rides.

OTOH, I kind of like it when people I'm riding with pass and run triple digits speeds and take over leading. I found there aren't many better way to avoid getting tickets than having someoine in front of you running a much faster pace. Kind of like having a mine sweeper in front of you in a minefield. Unfortunately I can't remember the last time someone on a ride did this.

[Deplorable, thank you!]

"Over my 13 seasons of street riding I'd guesstimate of the "accidents" I've witnessed, 40% were forced and 60% were unforced."

My experience (way over 30 years now)is about 1% "forced" and 99% "unforced"--but everyones defination of same will vary....
my deer hits-unforced, I could have done things differently to avoid them- I did what I thought best (in those 1-2 seconds) to mitigate the damages to myself and the bike- but still ended up hitting the deer...I wasn't forced into making a stupid choice, I was forced to make a choice, which I did and only I could control that decision...my deer hits, my fault. (granted the options (in the time allowed to decide) did not look more promising)

I have hit gravel in a turn and couldn't even see it and fallen...that isn't a forced error, I should have seen it, should have gone slower, should have done many things differently...gravel, sand, decreasing radius turn those are all unforced errors, nobody forced you to hit any of it or ride wide or, or, or.....

I have had  roads end on me ,  I should have seen and recognized sooner,  I ended up riding into gravel that I should have been able to stop prior to getting to---these aren't forced errors, road signs or not, shadows or not...These are unforced errors, situations I should have recognized earlier and been able to avoid.

A forced error--Tonys deer coming out of nowhere and running into the side of his bike.... a car suddenly swerving into your lane as you meet (drunk or otherwise)....a tree branch falling on the road right in front of you giving you little options but to hit it or go around in the gravel and risk "loosing control" or run into oncoming traffic etc....this list  (forced errors) is extremely short..IMO

[RCKT GRL]

Just curious... how many of you regularly hit triple digit speeds on your rides? Even for a moment... 
Are triple digits an expectation on your rides?

Rarely.  I save that for BIR.  80-85 is about right.  Unfortunately, the cops don't see it that way.  LOL!

[Ray916MN]

"Over my 13 seasons of street riding I'd guesstimate of the "accidents" I've witnessed, 40% were forced and 60% were unforced."

My experience (way over 30 years now)is about 1% "forced" and 99% "unforced"--but everyones defination of same will vary....
my deer hits-unforced, I could have done things differently to avoid them- I did what I thought best (in those 1-2 seconds) to mitigate the damages to myself and the bike- but still ended up hitting the deer...I wasn't forced into making a stupid choice, I was forced to make a choice, which I did and only I could control that decision...my deer hits, my fault. (granted the options (in the time allowed to decide) did not look more promising)

I have hit gravel in a turn and couldn't even see it and fallen...that isn't a forced error, I should have seen it, should have gone slower, should have done many things differently...gravel, sand, decreasing radius turn those are all unforced errors, nobody forced you to hit any of it or ride wide or, or, or.....

I have had  roads end on me ,  I should have seen and recognized sooner,  I ended up riding into gravel that I should have been able to stop prior to getting to---these aren't forced errors, road signs or not, shadows or not...These are unforced errors, situations I should have recognized earlier and been able to avoid.

A forced error--Tonys deer coming out of nowhere and running into the side of his bike.... a car suddenly swerving into your lane as you meet (drunk or otherwise)....a tree branch falling on the road right in front of you giving you little options but to hit it or go around in the gravel and risk "loosing control" or run into oncoming traffic etc....this list  (forced errors) is extremely short..IMO

+1

My last 3 crashes on gravel were unforced errors.

[Aprilian]

I kind of like it when people I'm riding with pass and run triple digits speeds and take over leading. I found there aren't many better way to avoid getting tickets than having someoine in front of you running a much faster pace. Kind of like having a mine sweeper in front of you in a minefield.

Ray,  My experience is different.   I must have low testosterone, because I usually hang out towards the back on group rides.  One reason I dislike some "testosterone poisoned" rides (that I have joined) is that any officer, who sees multiple bikes going past above the speed limit, will pull over the first rider they can and that is often the tail rider (me).   He/she will not just look to catch up to the fastest rider.   Your plan works if you leave tons of space between you and the "rabbit" so that the officer puts themselves between you and the "lead rider".   I often speed up in the car when I get passed by a faster vehicle as you describe.

[vince]

OTOH, I kind of like it when people I'm riding with pass and run triple digits speeds and take over leading. I found there aren't many better way to avoid getting tickets than having someone in front of you running a much faster pace. Kind of like having a mine sweeper in front of you in a minefield.

So that's why you let me lead some times.

[Ray916MN]

I kind of like it when people I'm riding with pass and run triple digits speeds and take over leading. I found there aren't many better way to avoid getting tickets than having someoine in front of you running a much faster pace. Kind of like having a mine sweeper in front of you in a minefield.

Ray,  My experience is different.   I must have low testosterone, because I usually hang out towards the back on group rides.  One reason I dislike some "testosterone poisoned" rides (that I have joined) is that any officer, who sees multiple bikes going past above the speed limit, will pull over the first rider they can and that is often the tail rider (me).   He/she will not just look to catch up to the fastest rider.   Your plan works if you leave tons of space between you and the "rabbit" so that the officer puts themselves between you and the "lead rider".   I often speed up in the car when I get passed by a faster vehicle as you describe.

Anyone who goes by me doing triple digits is going to be way in front of me if they keep it up and aren't slow in turns. If I wanted to be going triple digits, I'd be going triple digits. The fact that someone passes me makes no difference to my riding, unless they pass me and then hold me up in turns.

Testosterone? I haven't been on a ride in a long long time when I felt like it was testosterone driven. There is a reason why most if not all rides posted on this forum and no longer cross posted on other forums. I'd hang in the back more if others would lead more, but I'm not sure that there is any intrinsic correlation between where you ride in a group and the level of testosterone. At a smelling the flowers pace or any other controlled pace, someone has to be in front, someone has to be in the middle and someone has to be in the back.

I think your experience is the same as mine, but your assumptions or conclusions about group riding are entirely different than mine.

[Ray916MN]

OTOH, I kind of like it when people I'm riding with pass and run triple digits speeds and take over leading. I found there aren't many better way to avoid getting tickets than having someone in front of you running a much faster pace. Kind of like having a mine sweeper in front of you in a minefield.

So that's why you let me lead some times.

As if I could or would stop you from leading....

I really enjoy rides where people just spontaneously take over leading. Makes for more interesting group riding in my opinion.

[kp]

Just curious... how many of you regularly hit triple digit speeds on your rides? Even for a moment... 
Are triple digits an expectation on your rides?

I don't, I rarely get over 80-85mph

ditto, especially when I'm riding with a group larger than 4 people.