Riding Safely

[Ray916MN]

.... Ray has said that he started the original list to find people to ride with.  I'm pretty sure he's more interested in fast, safe, experienced riders on sporty bikes who want to ride hundreds of miles of twisty roads per day, as opposed to relatively slow, inexperienced, slow cruiser riders who want to spend as much time stopped as riding.  T...

I'd say proficient, not fast.

Over the years I've come to see the words "fast" to motorcyclists as a red cape is to a bull.

As long a people are proficient and able to self navigate off a route sheet and take care of themselves on a ride, the more the merrier.

While I personally enjoy a brisk pace, that's my pace, and shouldn't be construed as what others need to ride to enjoy a ride. I'd love to see more riders riding a variety of paces on rides. I think this would make it easier for folks to fit in and find folks to ride with.

[GUZZI JOHN]

   BLACK DIAMOND ELITIST OR "SUPER SQUID"?  That's got your attention.  What % of our group has these abilities? I never had any training in 50+yrs of riding,CRA racer 76-80,many yrs as corner crewman,and still able to go fairly well @ 65.  I personally can't believe the twice plus 20mph thing off the track.  There are no corner crews to watch the pavement condition for you and certainly no EMTs to pick up your pieces.  What % of our favorite corner haunts are blind? Sooner or later you'll find an incontinent moose has left you a present in the middle of one of your favorite turns.  When I was young if I didn't crash once a year I was going too slow! This year has been very bad for crashes on the various forums and fatalities in the DOT statistics.  If you like 'Cubic Zirconium' rides and don't mind 'Chicken Stripes' hook up with us slowpokes on one of the weekday rides and maybe discover the beauty that can be missed at 'Warp Speed'.  ::)GJ

[Deplorable, thank you!]

"I'd probably manage 20MPH because I'd have the luck to get stuck behind that truck in your picture (just like the car in the picture)."

Aprillian--I hope that is a smallish motorhome towing the car, otherwise they are really tailgating bad. Time for a brake check.

Brent--I do not believe everybody could ride through it at 50 mph, (double +20). There is half the problem, everyone (or atleast far too many) thinks they can do double + 20

Guzzi John--I certainly don't run double +20 on a regular basis, or when I have people behind me (following) I know don't have those skills...the vast majority of the riders I end up with don't have those skills.

Ray--"While I personally enjoy a brisk pace, that's my pace, and shouldn't be construed as what others need to ride to enjoy a ride. I'd love to see more riders riding a variety of paces on rides. I think this would make it easier for folks to fit in and find folks to ride with."

exactly, thus the "ride your own ride" blah blah blah blah blah...omg have we come full circle yet? Is this not what we preach and emphasis and have sought after, holy shit the skies just parted ways, and the sun came out.

Back to John--"BLACK DIAMOND ELITIST OR "SUPER SQUID"?  That's got your attention.  What % of our group has these abilities? "
 Super squid is the idiot who runs break neck speeds down the straights just to "park it" in the turns.....Super squid is the idiot who rides well beyond their capabilities....super squid is the idiot who doesn't actually know their own abilities...Super squids are the guys who run a bald tire another 500 miles, or don't wear "proper" gear....Super squids are all over the forums in many shapes and sizes, but none of them (sans 1) is anyone I would ever ride with once I come to that determination(and he is a part time super squid). So draw your own conclusions on what I consider a super squid, I think it is pretty clear.
So to address your triple black diamond elitist, yes I am an elitist, I only want to ride on triple black diamond routes with other people that are; "proficient", make the good choices, actually have a real knowledge of riding skills and take an active interest in developing their skills, and they know when it is time to go and when it is time to slow, as far as a percentage #...my preffered companions is under 20 total riders I know, most on this forum, but a few who are not---so you do the math...

But I also have no problem riding some scenic "smell the roses" ride with people that are riding within their limits, proficient and skilled enough to ride at their pace, I would not ride with them if they suddenly jumped to the triple black diamond routes and were way out of control or obviously over their head...ie crossing the centerline, blasting down the straights to catch up, etc etc etc...
 Finally-you can't believe double +20 off the track, I am not talking about anything posted over say 30, The turns posted higher than 30 or unposted, those turns I would just continue on at what I was riding on the straights...70 ish, but their are lots of turns posted 15,20,25 that I can ride dbl +20 all day without even giving it a second thought, sure there are also some of those turns that only dbl or even less than dbl is appropriate, but I have yet to find myself "in trouble" navigating at dbl +20 on the vast majority of the turns.

I have no illusions of "racetrack" stuff on the street, I have only really gone out once to "prove" something in many years, and it was far too easy. So yeah I ride triple black diamond roads at  a brisk pace, and often double +20 through many turns on a route (if conditions and companions merit) it is extremely rare that I break 70-75 on those same routes. Big difference if you are thinking double plus 20 means riding 130 through some turns--that is just fool hardy and begging for a ticket or ambulance ride or worse.

I am pretty sure my odds of severe injury at double +20 on a 15 mph turn are significantly less than me falling down at even 75 in a straight line, and at my "slow" pace (I really like the slow, tight technical turns)If I do fall, I can likely pick up the bike and ride it home mostly unscathed, something that isn't going to happen at 75 plus......FYI, I went 18 years without a crash, ridng at my "break neck" speeds...I never once even thought that since I didn't crash in so long I must be going too slow.
I tried to join your "slowpokes" ride today but you cancelled...so I will show up Thursday just to "prove" my point that I can ride at less than warp speed and still enjoy myself, since it seems you are calling me out??

my .02    FWIW

[aschendel]

Mullholland?

Hey I've been there   Didn't see a single bike (and only one car) in the 5 minutes I was able to spend there. 



Double + anything is pushing pretty hard into the high-risk category, and that's what so many (all?) of us can and often do do.  At some point we're in the zone in corners we know and love and we're willing to take more risks.  Other times the mood isn't right, the corners feel awkward or new or something else is weighing us down, if we aren't smart enough to dial it back, sometimes WAY back, things tend to get messy even if we don't fall.

I love that Brent blew me away on the 250 without knee sliders at DCTC.

Andy

[Jvs]

Thanks for the novel Lloyd :p (some entertainment for work) haha
I just don't get all of these post about people dictating what everybody else does as far as riding goes. I started riding because it was fun and because it was MY choice to go where I wanted and to ride how I wanted. I like my corners (chicken strip free ha) but would rathe just have fun while out with the guys.  We can all agree many riders need more training (myself included) but who's to say how they should and shouldn't ride? Everything we do nowadays has law after law after law not to mention these new standards in which all motorcyclists should supposedly abide by. They don't ride like u want them to, kick it down a few gears, move along and go enjoy the roads how you want to, end of story.

[Deplorable, thank you!]

Since it is a "novel" and surely some (JVS obviously)skipped the important parts.....


"Ray--"While I personally enjoy a brisk pace, that's my pace, and shouldn't be construed as what others need to ride to enjoy a ride. I'd love to see more riders riding a variety of paces on rides. I think this would make it easier for folks to fit in and find folks to ride with."

exactly, thus the "ride your own ride" blah blah blah blah blah...omg have we come full circle yet? Is this not what we preach and emphasize and have sought after, holy shit the skies just parted ways, and the sun came out."

[aschendel]

he did note that he'd read it at work, which I assumed was "later".

LOL

[Greg]

I just don't get all of these post about people dictating what everybody else does as far as riding goes. I started riding because it was fun and because it was MY choice to go where I wanted and to ride how I wanted. I like my corners (chicken strip free ha) but would rathe just have fun while out with the guys.  We can all agree many riders need more training (myself included) but who's to say how they should and shouldn't ride? Everything we do nowadays has law after law after law not to mention these new standards in which all motorcyclists should supposedly abide by. They don't ride like u want them to, kick it down a few gears, move along and go enjoy the roads how you want to, end of story.

Great post. Most of the rest of this thread is giving me a headache. I do know one thing for sure, any new lurker here sure isn't going to want to join any ride very soon.

Ride your own ride.

Greg

[Deplorable, thank you!]

 You guys just don't get it.

How am I saying you need to ride how I ride?

Did you not read then re read the re-emphasized post......

Here let me copy it yet one more time;

"While I personally enjoy a brisk pace, that's my pace, and shouldn't be construed as what others need to ride to enjoy a ride. I'd love to see more riders riding a variety of paces on rides. I think this would make it easier for folks to fit in and find folks to ride with." quoted from Rays post, but exactly what is being stated and sought after in my opinion!!!

Come on reading one o one........

[Greg]

Lloyd, it's a 7,856 (exaggeration to make a point) layered "conversation". Every post isn't necessarily directed at you.

[kp]

Lloyd,  Every post isn't necessarily directed at you.

wait,  what?   

[Jared]

ATTENTION:

an incontinent moose

That is all.

P.S. what happened to Yul?

[Deplorable, thank you!]

 I give up....it is worth no further explanation if you haven't gotten it by now.
This just fuckin reminds me of the idiotic posts about members bashing on me because I did not want to share my routes and somehow a few of you came to the conclusion that it was I that was ramming it down your throats that you had to not share or whatthefuckever, when in actuality it was you all  ramming it down my throats that what,  I had to share and I argued to respect the route makers desires, regardless of if they want to share or not. but no...........forget it it isn't worth my time or aggrevation

[pkpk]

Deep breath dude.  You bring a lot to the table.  But sometimes you put too much on your plate. 

[aschendel]

I watched the board all day today and nothing, then I step away for a few hours and it blows up.  I thought several people did a nice job of stating their positions, and of course we don't all agree.  Personally I fall closer to Lloyd than GJ (objection: speculation), and I really thought that Brent and Ray shared a profound point: riding with proficient people, not just judging based on speed, is fun (and Lloyd said that, too, in here as well as in the Pace Guide thread).

On the other hand, the "just ride" and "motorcycling is just an answer and does not need further analysis and disection" thoughts don't jive with my personality very well.  I mean, sure, some times (maybe?) it's just about getting "out there", but I'm generally more driven or focused than that.  I don't even wash my car or cut my lawn without a purpose, why risk getting killed over something that isn't worth thinking about or analyzing (my own riding/mistakes or someone else's) for improvement?  I know I can be overbearing (towards myself) and I try very hard not to hold anyone else to my standard.  When others have high standards of their own and strive to achieve/improve (in countless different categories/areas), I smile and especially respect that as it "clicks" with me.

Andy