Riding Safely

[Deplorable, thank you!]

"I can definitely identify with Lloyd's sentiment around closing down the forum and rides to "outsiders" as I recognize that it introduces many who are not and will not ever be a good fit for MN-MSTA. "

Is that what I said?
I guess I 'll have to go back re-read (but I do like the forum viewed to logged in members only-perhaps that was the context)

I am all for individuals bringing people that they already know will likely (high probablity) be a "good fit".

I am very much against trolling for whatever bites the line, and then a real em in and we'll see approach. Which is how I percieve the last 2+ seasons have gone.

Also, yes those that "don't fit", "don't contribute" then why are they here? I mean really why are about 200 "members" in name only actually on this forum? For the most part they don't post, don't join rides, don't contribute. Sure there will be "new" members who don't fit on occassion and they will go away or pushed away, sure without a broad sweep net you may miss a few that would be a "good fit", but When I view the memebers list, it is what about 65 that post , perhaps 40 of those that contribute and ride-the rest are just a name....

It would be one thing if you wanted a huge forum name database so you could brag about how your forum is the biggest, or you were trying to sell ad space or something with your ego and/or pocketbook in mind like the other forums do--it is another when it appears all anyone (the contributors) on this forum wants to do is ride with similarly skilled "adult" riding friends, at what is percieved by some as "fast" and for still others at a more "moderate" pace---I still say the two are only a couple mph's apart, I have been on them both regularly.

Just as dinstinction-When I hear "fast" - that equates to someone braking hard and accelerating hard and likely running triple digit speeds. I have only seen that a scant few times on rides with this forum
When I hear John or Paul talk about how slow or moderate they ride. I laugh, I have ridden with both and it is damn near the same pace, minus only a couple miles per hour and maybe 5-10 mph in the more challenging turns-and they both rider faster in the straights than I typically do...stop to stop-the total time would be about the same, perhaps they would even get their first, and Paul has.

Anyways.........

[Chris]

"Riding safely" now tops the charts on the top 10 posted on threads...lol

I know I am waiting for the movie, this thing is long....

With that, Yul can now look at his accomplishment with satisfaction.  Too bad he only wanted to toss the grenade, and not be part of the dialog.

I was curious so I look he has not been on since the 23rd.

[Yul]

I am here; heavy with disappointment.

I am wrong.  I thought that this site was different from the others.  It is not.  It is the same dynamic as the others... posturing, ridicule, and blind "cult-like" loyalty to the organization.
I will continue just to read and will no longer participate as I do with other message boards.
And that is fine.  But maybe you will not be so harsh with your judgments of the other sites knowing that you all are susceptible to the same collapse of social graces as the others.
You have all participated and have behaved just as poorly as the other forums.  And again, that is okay... I just hope you all learn something from this.  Even old men can change and perhaps at that time I can re-engage in civil dialogue.

Enjoy yourselves and be safe. 

[Aprilian]

Yul,  welcome back to the discussion.

I mean no ill will, but if I read between the lines, your goal in dropping in was to point out how we are the same as other forums?   If my read is accurate, I'm glad you were able to get what you needed and stimulate some discussion here.

I still don't understand why you are reluctant to introduce yourself - as is common in "civil dialog".  I don't carry brass knuckles or pick fights with other riders (nor do the other MNSTA riders I know).

PS  As one of the "old men" - you'll have to come up with a much better exiting insult.

[Yul]

My intent of my last post was to reveal the hypocrisy and to hope that others will take moment to be introspective.  Nothing more.

[Aprilian]

I still don't understand why you are reluctant to introduce yourself - as is common in "civil dialog". 

[aschendel]

I am here; heavy with disappointment.

I am wrong.  I thought that this site was different from the others.  It is not.  It is the same dynamic as the others... posturing, ridicule, and blind "cult-like" loyalty to the organization.
I will continue just to read and will no longer participate as I do with other message boards.
And that is fine.  But maybe you will not be so harsh with your judgments of the other sites knowing that you all are susceptible to the same collapse of social graces as the others.
You have all participated and have behaved just as poorly as the other forums.  And again, that is okay... I just hope you all learn something from this.  Even old men can change and perhaps at that time I can re-engage in civil dialogue.

Enjoy yourselves and be safe. 

That has to be some sort of joke or psychology class experiment or something.  I know of no other interaction initiated and "ended" by any sort of person proclaiming multiple times to be all about the civil discourse without a single affirmation of any kind to any one of the participants or any meaningful contribution by the initiator.  And on top of that you somehow threaten to participate less?

Whoop-de-doo, you what, wanted to rile us up and see how introspective we could be?  You did, we did, and you determined that our introspection didn't meet your criteria?  Good work.  The rest of us know more about each other than before, and some of the key points of riding safely have been discussed from various perspectives.  People's personalities showed and all we get is a ridiculous it's the "same dynamic as the others... posturing, ridicule, and blind "cult-like" loyalty to the organization" and "You have all participated and have behaved just as poorly as the other forums"?  Those statements, directed at everyone (!?!?), are as asinine as any opinion ever made public.

a.s.

[pkpk]

You have all participated and have behaved just as poorly as the other forums.

Hmm, I thought it was a great discussion.  What is the criteria for "poorly as other forums"?  Very few forums actually take the time to discuss the various aspects of group riding dynamics and allow all sorts of points of view. 

I still think it's one big Zebco.  But the outcome wound up being very worthwhile. 

[Deplorable, thank you!]

 Here is safety thoughts----all 3 of these tires are from forum members bikes and they are all active members as well, fwiw

Tire a)
left side just under 1/32" to the wear bar......center 2+/32" to the wear bar...right side on the wear bar------
Tire b)
it is pretty self explanatory, it should have been removed more 1000 miles ago. What is your life worth kind of scenario, IMO
Tire c)
 well it is under 1/32" to the wear bar in the center (at the cupped areas actually at the wear bar), while both sides have more than 3/32"

Okay so mind you "sport" front tires typically come with 4/32" of tread depth above the wear bar
Also keep in mind the wear bar is the legal limit of what you can ride on at 1/32"
Finally, since this is a safety thread.

I want to know what any of you think of these 3 tires in general.
ie...would you ride it that, is it taken off too soon, do you think it is "safe", riding styles etc....

Tire A specifically. It has over half the tread depth left in the center.
Would you have kept riding on it ?(if you were the person who wore out the edges faster than the center)---if so for how long, I mean how much more wear, not how many more miles.

Tire B specifically. Well besides its obvious lack of any tread whatsoever, and the "ridge" in the "just barely leaned" area. What on earth would you presume to think this person was thinking continueing to ride on this all the way to this point?
Would you have allowed them on a ride you were at, as the organizer or not?
How would you approach your conversation with this person?

Tire C specifically. Well it does have minimal tread, but is cupped pretty bad.
Would you make any suggestions to a person showing up to a ride with this tire?
What do you think caused this condition?
If it was your bike, would you continue to ride on it?
Would you suggest they not join the ride?

[aschendel]

I've got some thoughts, and some of my tires in the garage -- I think mine are worse than A and C (in some ways, cupping and center tread depth) but not B.  I'll see if I can get some pics.

I don't know that I'd send someone home on a tire like B, but especially if I were the organizer I'd be pretty clear that there was a huge risk in riding it and people should stay away, maybe make them ride sweep, get emergency contact info, things like that.  Not as bad as not having front brakes, but worse than not having rear brakes maybe.  Tire B going flat at a bad time would have the distinct possibility of really ruining a lot of people's days (i.e. killing a rider other than the owner of the tire).  You know what's interesting, any flat tire in a tightly packed group could do that.  I'm going to say that Tire B was more likely to go, but made-up statistics don't mean crap when your number's called.

I'll admit I wasn't man enough to send a guy packing when he showed up without a helmet.  It was a lower-level small group and he was a friend of a friend.  We rode probably 200 miles of pretty standard twisties, the MN side down to Wabasha, a bit of Alphabet soup back towards the cities.

a.s.

[Deplorable, thank you!]

 Just so as to not clutter up that beautiful posting of examples I so carefully posted.......


2 of these members I have not ever ridden with, and based on these tires pictures- I doubt I ever will.

There Everyone knows my perspective, and it may not be very PC, But I definately would not have allowed them on any ride I organized.....and I would have made certain to not be in the group if they did join someone elses ride, after many a harsch word for them.

But I am a Hit them on the head with a hammer kind of person.

[Jared]

So let me get this right, you come start a conversation on the 23rd and for 5 days have absolutely nothing to say or contribute while other members of the forum discuss the topic at length.  Then you come on today not to finally grace us with your wisdom or insights but to wag your finger at how the conversation went and to inform us that you will be taking your ball and going home?  Does that sum it up pretty well?

Bye.

[Deplorable, thank you!]

I am here; heavy with disappointment.

I am wrong.  I thought that this site was different from the others.  It is not.  It is the same dynamic as the others... posturing, ridicule, and blind "cult-like" loyalty to the organization.
I will continue just to read and will no longer participate as I do with other message boards.
And that is fine.  But maybe you will not be so harsh with your judgments of the other sites knowing that you all are susceptible to the same collapse of social graces as the others.
You have all participated and have behaved just as poorly as the other forums.  And again, that is okay... I just hope you all learn something from this.  Even old men can change and perhaps at that time I can re-engage in civil dialogue.

Enjoy yourselves and be safe. 

"I thought that this site was different from the others.  It is not.  It is the same dynamic as the others... posturing, ridicule, and blind "cult-like" loyalty to the organization."

You know what, this is one thing I completely agree with you on. YOU ARE WRONG ! I would love for you to quote me a post of "posturing", "ridicule" and "blind cult like loyalty to the organization" (well okay Tim did bash on you a few times, pick someone who actually posted in this thread a response to the questions)

Come on YUL-I may not like your approach but come back and let me drill you some more. You didn't answer any of the questions from those first 2 pages either.

So please tell me why you posted anything at all? It apparently wasn't to join in. It looks like you are the one who is here doing the posturing and ridicule to me.

I am quite sure you are still lurking, don't wait another 5 days and 8 pages. Or is that your MO, then you can ignore direct questions?

[GUZZI JOHN]

  I'm more critical than you are! My gutted emgo megs are louder,my off the rack colors are gnarlier,my fringe is longer,my opinions are better-THAN YOURS! I am as bad or worse than most of you in being one to notice others faults but at least I know it.  Let's get back to enjoying the back roads with others of similar tastes.  After all the weather barriers I still plan to get to "The Hills" monday. If anyone else shows up great-even if they're a 'Hoglie Rider' I'll try to show them a good time.  These 8 pages of banter may offend or at least scare away some folks. Let's try to keep this stuff on the back burner 'til winter when we need things to argue about unless like me you're trying to get out on your x-country skis!GJ

[Gramps]

Stop it John, you're making way too much sense.