My Crash, limited time viewing now

[Deplorable, thank you!]

 As long as I am on a roll here,

 I by no means am saying everyone needs to ride the same way.
Obviously some people are always going to ride like "tools"--no doubt some think I ride like a "tool" (and at times I do), so it is all about perception.
 For anyone who is happy at the plateau they have reached in their skills level, well that is their problem (just know your skills diminish with time without practice--so your plateau is erroding away...)
 For anyone who wants to ride on the road like it is your own personal racetrack, well again that is all on you.
 
Speaking for myself (like always) I certainly don't want to ride with these types of riders, and it is my perception of the mn-msta and the MSTA that those aren't the people who they are seeking out either. But WTF do I know.

 Finally if you are all butt hurt about some criticism for something you openly share on a forum--you better get off the forums. There is always going to be someone you don't like, someone who doesn't like you, people who think differently.  Perhaps it isn't even that they don't like you, perhaps they are just using an opportunity to make a point?
 If you are set on sticking around, you have 2 choices--grow some thick skin and take it (hopefully learn and grow so your butt sore will go away) or continue whining like a little baby and continue to blame everyone else with your woe is me song....
 This isn't aimed at any one person in particular-----so read into it whatever you desire.

When I direct it at someone in particular, believe me you will know it !

[Pipes]

Seven bikes in 6 years-- I wish I had that kind of disposable income.

[pkpk]

.......it appears that you were barely speeding and barely slowing down.  again, pure speculation on my part.  perhaps the decrease in speed from 70 (tops, maybe more like 65) to 59 when you stopped (*ouch!*) was more influential than i think it was, but like a lot of crashes

I saw 82 on the speedo as he was exiting the first mild curve.  The point I made (earlier) was that sort of speed on Wis 95 is begging for all sorts of things to go wrong.  Not to mention, Joe Law comes around the corner and you're going to be making a donation to the county.

[Ray916MN]

.....

As a side note....this is EXACTLY why I won't ride with the person that was in front of you.

I've heard far too many times that his riding has either caused a crash or almost did.
I do agree that if everyone rides their own ride that shouldn't be a problem...him included.
It's common knowledge he rides that way so people should know to keep their distance.

In my opinion, the rider in front can not cause an accident except in a few situations. If the rider in front crosses the center line, gets hit by an oncoming car and gets flung back into the following rider or causes the car to cross the center line into the following rider, or the rider in front suffers a catastrophic failure which dumps anti-freeze or oil on the road surface which the following rider can not avoid then the rider in front is at fault.

Of course the rider in front can ride erratically (the opposite of smoothly) and possibly diminish the riding fun of the following rider if the following rider follows too closely. The fix to riding with people who don't ride the same way as you do, is almost invariably more distance between you and them. Just like the fix to being around people you don't like is more distance, so it is with riding.

.... There was a rumor going on after the crashed, that I cause Mike to crash....

In my opinion, the notion within a group that the rider ahead can cause a crash behind them by braking is group idiocy. If in a group, you ever hear people suggest this, steer clear of them, as it is prima facie evidence they are an idiot. Groups who believe that a braking rider ahead can be responsible for an accident for a rider behind them should be avoided as they don't get what it means to be responsible for riding your own ride and are clearly willing to blame others for their riding mistakes. People who blame others for their mistakes are not people who learn anything from their mistakes.

Riding your own ride means you ride how you see fit. If you want to hit the brakes you hit the brakes. You should not have to worry about anyone ass packing you or being forced to run off the road under any circumstances. That's their problem. That's what maintaining a safe following distance is about. If someone in front of you is stopping and you hit them or run off the road trying to avoid them, you were by definition following too close. It could be you're following too close for conditions, for the performance level of your bike or the performance level of your riding, but it all amounts to the same thing, you were following too close and the only person responsible for following distance is you.

[Chris]

I agree, that the rider in front is not 100% "responsible" for the crash, but if that rider slows down unexpectedly even if you have a safe distance, this can still not be enough, causing the following rider to change his line this is were the experience and skill and luck of the following rider comes into play.

.... I sent Mike a text saying that I had to brake at that corner because I also saw the same trash that he saw on that part of the road....

From the video you were HARD on the brakes well before the cup could be seen, and it was no where near your line you were riding on or over the yellow.

[cbreater]

.....

As a side note....this is EXACTLY why I won't ride with the person that was in front of you.

I've heard far too many times that his riding has either caused a crash or almost did.
I do agree that if everyone rides their own ride that shouldn't be a problem...him included.
It's common knowledge he rides that way so people should know to keep their distance.

In my opinion, the rider in front can not cause an accident except in a few situations. If the rider in front crosses the center line, gets hit by an oncoming car and gets flung back into the following rider or causes the car to cross the center line into the following rider, or the rider in front suffers a catastrophic failure which dumps anti-freeze or oil on the road surface which the following rider can not avoid then the rider in front is at fault.

Of course the rider in front can ride erratically (the opposite of smoothly) and possibly diminish the riding fun of the following rider if the following rider follows too closely. The fix to riding with people who don't ride the same way as you do, is almost invariably more distance between you and them. Just like the fix to being around people you don't like is more distance, so it is with riding.

.... There was a rumor going on after the crashed, that I cause Mike to crash....

In my opinion, the notion within a group that the rider ahead can cause a crash behind them by braking is group idiocy. If in a group, you ever hear people suggest this, steer clear of them, as it is prima facie evidence they are an idiot. Groups who believe that a braking rider ahead can be responsible for an accident for a rider behind them should be avoided as they don't get what it means to be responsible for riding your own ride and are clearly willing to blame others for their riding mistakes. People who blame others for their mistakes are not people who learn anything from their mistakes.

Riding your own ride means you ride how you see fit. If you want to hit the brakes you hit the brakes. You should not have to worry about anyone ass packing you or being forced to run off the road under any circumstances. That's their problem. That's what maintaining a safe following distance is about. If someone in front of you is stopping and you hit them or run off the road trying to avoid them, you were by definition following too close. It could be you're following too close for conditions, for the performance level of your bike or the performance level of your riding, but it all amounts to the same thing, you were following too close and the only person responsible for following distance is you.

  This will be my first post here and typically try to stay out of others business but this deserves an AMEN!!!

[Ultra_Magnus]

  Also, before we got to this point, you almost crash once already.

Dont worry Gely, i dont blame you for the crash. Were u a factor? of course. But thats my fault, not yours.

About the  "almost crashing" earlier. No i hit a tar snake. I had total control.

lol wut

Heres the vid of that.

Why did i go wide in this video? Someone decided to blast up on the inside of the curve on me.

[cbreater]

I'm not sure where to begin with the riding in the 2nd video...not just yours but both bikes ahead of you leave a little to be desired too.  I would tend to beleive that the person "inside" did so after you were already too wide and well clear of their path.  If they were not its another prime example of following too closely.

[Ultra_Magnus]

I'm not sure where to begin with the riding in the 2nd video...not just yours but both bikes ahead of you leave a little to be desired too.  I would tend to beleive that the person "inside" did so after you were already too wide and well clear of their path.  If they were not its another prime example of following too closely.

Naw they were in my peripheral  before i went wide. Cams just not pickin it up. But yea, defintely a prime example of riding too close :-)

[carlson_mn]

He (Gely) was NOT hard on the brakes.  He only slowed from about 80 to 65 before the crash and the guy in front was pulling away already at 65.  That's only a decrease of 15mph over the course of two long turns on highway 95.  Take any modern sportbike and get hard on the brakes and you will watch the speedo RAPIDLY decrease from 70mph.... I can probably scrub off from 80-40 in 2 seconds on my 660lb bike.

I'm assuming he has one of those VERY annoying blipping LED brake lights?? The lumens on all of those are far below what incandescents output.  Because it is not solidly on.  The fact that he barely lost any speed leads me to think it was gently trail braking while the rider behind who crashed was setup to accelerate through the whole turn.  Neither is wrong, they just can't occur at the same time in the same location.  I trail brake often on my FJR, usually only scrubbing off 5-10mph leading into the apex and it helps to decrease my trail and sharpen my steering by lightly compressing my front end.  I took a thousand turns today in WI and MN, sometimes I enter one or two a bit faster than I want.  Usually I am accelerating through a turn, but not always.  However, this is not a skill that one becomes comfortable with easily.  You have to have a lot of confidence and not fixit on your front wheel and stand it up.

Any more references to the leading rider doing anything that in any way contributed to this crash is absurd.

[Jared]

Great posts from Ray and Lloyd above.  So what's happening in this second video?  You hit a tar snake and were simultaneously pushed wide by someone "passing" on the inside?

[Jared]

Oops, looks like cbreater got there before I did.

[Ultra_Magnus]

No the camera doesnt pic up led brake lights well, has something to do with the frequency of the leds and the frame rate of the camera. They were solid to the human eye.

[Ray916MN]

I agree, that the rider in front is not 100% "responsible" for the crash, but if that rider slows down unexpectedly even if you have a safe distance, this can still not be enough, causing the following rider to change his line this is were the experience and skill and luck of the following rider comes into play. ....

A safe following distance has to account for an unexpected slow down.

Here's a story to illustrate, it happened in Arkansas, but it could easily have happened in the areas we ride in.

I was on 16 in AR, a great road which runs from east to west about 80 miles long. Fairly tight and twisty on the east end and open sweepers on the west end. I picked up a tail of two locals. They weren't too tight on my tail, but they weren't 2 seconds back either. I came over a hill and saw deer and broke hard. One rider came by me on the right and the other on the left. Needless to say, after this incident they increased their following distance significantly.

I hope that everyone who reads this doesn't need to come by me on the brakes to figure out that their following distance needs to accommodate the unexpected.

Of course, we all sometimes ride behind people and think "why the hell are they slowing down" or "why the hell are they on the brakes". Even though 9 times out of 10 or even 999 times out of 1000 they might be on the brakes needlessly in our opinion that's twenty twenty hind sight. It is pretty much impossible to tell why someone is on the brakes until after the fact, and after the fact is generally too late when there is a real reason for someone to be on the brakes.

Following distance is for the unexpected. If we knew what to expect we wouldn't need any following distance.

[Ultra_Magnus]

Following distance is for the unexpected. If we knew what to expect we wouldn't need any following distance.

Agreed. I defintely learned my lesson. Ive been riding 3 years, 45k miles, and this is my first crash, so i thought i had a good distance. Nothing like a broken femur to put thing is perspective.

I look at this is my first and final lesson. If i break this femur again im gonna be in alot of trouble with the metal rod in my leg.