Crashes Reported in the Media

[GUZZI JOHN]

  If you've never been spit down the road and had your bell rung while wearing a helmet the danger isn't real to you.GJ

[Tumbler]

It's all about looking cool to motorcyclists.  The guys that wear bandanas don't read the news or care.

That's sort of a hasty generalization Matt.
I get what you are saying but it isn't always the case.

I rode most of the day today with a bandana on leaving the helmet at home.
I did wear gloves & my jacket but just felt like not wearing the helmet.

I don't do that too often but it is nice to change it up now & then.
I wouldn't say I do it to "look cool" & I do read/watch the news as well as care about safety.

It's just a conscious decision & calculated risk I take on occasion.
I have to admit....it did feel odd & I felt a bit naked at first.

But like I said I don't do that often.

[carlson_mn]

It was a generalization you're right but pertaining to the guys that only wear a bandana ever.  Everyone of them I've talked to (okay only a half dozen or so about the topic of helmets) are very confident nothing will happen to them.  More than one has given me the speech of how seat belts and helmets are more dangerous than they are protective, right out of the Redneck Fact Book.  Don't get me wrong I like most Rednecks...

[Vander]

Everyone of them I've talked to (okay only a half dozen or so about the topic of helmets) are very confident nothing will happen to them.

Sounds like sportbike guys I talk to about riding too fast on the streets too.
Expensive gear + riding schools + a couple years of riding = I can ride THROUGH a semi-truck 

Cruiser guys think we're idiots for riding too fast just as much as we think they are idiots for not wearing enough gear...  everyone else in the cars think we're ALL idiots.

[carlson_mn]

I was actually thinking of guys on sport bikes as much as cruisers.  Fools everywhere.  It's dangerous, if you're single guy I understand but with a family I would immediately imagine something stupid happening and being a vegetable rest of my life or worse if I didn't wear a helmet. 

[Vander]

I was saying that we're ALL in denial.  Me too!
Many out there would call us irresponsible for riding as family men... helmet or not.

The cruiser folks feel that riding slower is effective enough in mitigating risk in lieu of gear.
And...
The sportbike people feel that training/ experience and expensive gear is effective enough in mitigating risk in lieu of riding at the posted speed limits.

Who's right?

Check us out, even....  why buy a sportbike for the streets?  To really experience the thrill of a good ride we all stretch the boundaries of safe riding.  Don't you think?  Otherwise a Burgman 400 scooter would do just fine in navigating the curves of WI at the posted speeds.
Hint:  It is a common misconception that the yellow MPH signs at the curves are "recommended" speeds... 

To truly "ride safe" we should never exceed the posted speed limits... especially in the curves.
But who do you know does that?  ...all the time?

Just saying.

[aschendel]

Many out there would call us irresponsible for riding as family men... helmet or not.

Hint:  It is a common misconception that the yellow MPH signs at the curves are "recommended" speeds... 

True


Please clarify the misconception with as direct a source as possible.  I know you've been involved in some of the legal side of things and would be surprised if you were incorrect, and surprised/disappointed that i've been misconceiving for so long.

Edit: google say-ith: "advisory", unless i'm missing something.  http://www.dot.state.mn.us/speed/

a.s.

[Vander]

google say-ith: "advisory", unless i'm missing something.  http://www.dot.state.mn.us/speed/

 
Well done!  And thanks for finding that!

I was told that by a few state troopers back in the day.  I just assumed that they knew what they were talking about and believed them.
I guess that clarifies that.
But I DO know that a "careless driving" citation can be written at the patrolman's discretion.

[Tim...]

Aren't all citations, written by a LEO, at their discretion?

[pkpk]

Otherwise a Burgman 400 scooter would do just fine in navigating the curves of WI at the posted speeds.

Actually a Burgman would probably do better than most sportbikes on the Mindoro, and I know a rider who needs nothing more than his old Kawi Ninja 250 to shame most of us on that road. 

[Tim...]

Back on topic, keep them coming.

[Tumbler]

Sorry Tim....I didn't mean for my comment to take it that far off topic.
It did spark some interesting conversation though & good points by Vander & Matt.

No worries BTW Matt...I know what you meant by your comment.
I was just countering it w/some humor...you did hit it on the head with the next one.

[pkpk]

There won't be more crashes until Friday now anyway. 

[Vander]

Aren't all citations, written by a LEO, at their discretion?

Well sure... but some citations are easier to qualify that a violation occurred.

In the military we had a "catch all" regulation to use from the UCMJ; article 134 "Conduct Unbecoming".  And civilian cops will often use "Disorderly Conduct" in the same way.  In the traffic world, "Careless Driving" is often used as a "catch all".

So in the context of our discussion...
Say you were driving at the posted speed limit of 50mph on a county road.  You come up on a 25mph (advisory speed)  blind curve... your skill of handling a motorcycle carries you through the corner at a sustained 50mph.  The police officer on the other side pulls you over and cites you for careless driving.  Why?  According to the officer, you traveled at an unsafe speed into an unknown situation (blind curve) but you didn't break the speed limit (as aschendel found out).

It's not a crystal clear situation, and it is based on a "what if"... but due to the confidence that the courts have in patrolman's discretion, the charges will probably stick.

[carlson_mn]

http://www.startribune.com/local/stpaul/152158815.html

messed up