My Crash, limited time viewing now

[flyinlow]

I agree with Ray, switching from bike to bike takes a while to get used to the other bike again, especially if you haven't ridden one of them in a while.

[Ultra_Magnus]

My guess - applied the front brake only, which stood the bike up, couldn't get yourself to release the brakes and turn, ran wide and hit the guardrail. I wouldn't be surprised if riding a linked braked bike has got you relying on the front brake lever allot more than you would if you regularly rode a bike with separate front and rear brake systems. At some point when the bike, started to run wide because you were on the front brake, letting off the brake and/or applying the rear brake might have saved your bacon, by allowing you to turn in more.

This is definetly a stong possibility. I wish i could remember exactly what my rear brake was doign at the time, but the fact i know exatly what i was doing with my front leads me to belive not much.

[pkpk]

Cups, boxes, road paint, strange bike, no linked brakes, rider braking in a corner etc, etc.....

Yet not many talk about the extreme speed coming down a hill on a curvy road with guardrails.  No wonder you're at the whim of so many variables.

Just one of the old guys here, kindly reminding you young guys to ride the motorbike on the public roads to smell the flowers.  Go to the racetrack to get the speed out of your system.   

BTW, kudos for having the courage to "put it out there".  Not many would have the balls to do this and I admire that.

[Hope2Ride]

I was riding BP with Vince and we were behind you, I saw the accident from behind. It was scary to watch and after watching your bike get wedged upside down into the gaurd rail I figured you were a dead man.... I'm so glad you're healed up well and will learn from this. It all happened so fast but I can say this, following distance was too close for almost everyone on that ride that day.

[Tumbler]

I agree with what the majority has been saying on this topic.
I also am glad to hear you are healing well & applaud you for posting this.
It's good that you are learning from it...I know I did from my crash a couple years ago!!
I wish I had video of that one....would probably have learned more than I did.

As a side note....this is EXACTLY why I won't prefer not to ride with the person that was in front of you.

I've heard far too many times that his riding has either caused a crash or almost did.
I do agree that if everyone rides their own ride that shouldn't be a problem...him included.
It's common knowledge he rides that way so people should know to keep their distance.

[tk]

There may be another factor at play in this incident. Everytime I've ridden with or seen Ultra_Magnus on a bike it has been his Honda. He may not ride the Triumph much and perhaps he isn't as familiar with its handling and braking characteristics. His Honda has a different braking system from his Triumph. It could be that when faced with a rider unexpectedly slowing in front of him on a downhill set of curves with a guardrail on his right and debris in the road that his brain got a bit of sensory overload, defaulted to what it knows best which would be Honda controls, and he maybe applied the incorrect amount of pressure on the brakes. Pure speculation on my part, but I know when I would switch from my Honda 954 to my Ducati there was a huge difference in handling and brake feel. Since I put 10 times as many miles on my Honda I really had to rethink my riding when I got on the Ducati in the twistys, especially in downhill twistys like that section of WI 95 that so many of us ride hard. My Honda didn't have linked brakes but they were very sensitive. My Ducati has brakes that require more effort. Both bike have fine brakes, they just have a very different feel.

I'm thinking the OP might have finessed his Honda thru this tricky situation
without incident. Not because the Honda has a better or worse braking
system but because the rider was more familiar with it.

[Chris]

I'm thinking the OP might have finessed his Honda thru this tricky situation
without incident. Not because the Honda has a better or worse braking
system but because the rider was more familiar with it.

+1

[carlson_mn]

Nothing more to add than thanks for sharing.

I waded up my first 'real' bike, a Sabre V65 due to all the reasons discussed above, rode it too hard before I was used to it, and I didn't have the skills anyways to handle what that bike threw at me after accelerating for 6 seconds... that was 11 or 12 years ago and I haven't been down since, many times I tell myself I'm glad I crashed it to teach myself a lesson.

[pkpk]

There may be another factor at play in this incident......

Yeah, well if you read the whole thread......   

[aschendel]

i've watched it a few dozen times now and based solely on that am going to vote target fixation for a few reasons.  first, the rider in front made it through without hanging off, with no extreme leaning and apparently minimal braking, you almost made it through and he was pulling away from you right before you fell, and it appears that you were barely speeding and barely slowing down.  again, pure speculation on my part.  perhaps the decrease in speed from 70 (tops, maybe more like 65) to 59 when you stopped (*ouch!*) was more influential than i think it was, but like a lot of crashes (including mine, also on a bike i was unfamiliar with), it seems like eyes up and a little gas and you'd have come out no problem.

i am very glad you are recovering and also am glad you got it on tape, i wish all of my painful exploits would have been filmed...

a.s.

p.s. i spent a lot of time behind that gentleman at MAM this spring at my first track day (beginner / first-timer, the R6 he was on pulled like a rocket), but immediately after the first time I nearly ran him over I made sure not to make that mistake again; i varied my speeds / following distance somewhat, but i really remember making it a point to take different lines so i wouldn't end up at the same place as he was.  of course the track is tons different, and i was working to set up a pass either on the brakes or coming out of turn since we couldn't pass in turns and i couldn't keep up on the straights, but i just thought i'd throw that in there.

[gely]

I agree with what the majority has been saying on this topic.
I also am glad to hear you are healing well & applaud you for posting this.
It's good that you are learning from it...I know I did from my crash a couple years ago!!
I wish I had video of that one....would probably have learned more than I did.

As a side note....this is EXACTLY why I won't ride with the person that was in front of you.

I've heard far too many times that his riding has either caused a crash or almost did.
I do agree that if everyone rides their own ride that shouldn't be a problem...him included.
It's common knowledge he rides that way so people should know to keep their distance.

Mark, your a real piece of work.  There's much I can say, but not worth my time.
=========================================

First of all, I'm glad Mike is healing up well and it could have been worse from the damages to the bike.

I'm guy in front.

So, I just was notified about this thread.  Don't think that didn't reply on purpose.  Feel free to ask the MOD when I last logged on before tonight.  There was a rumor going on after the crashed, that I cause Mike to crash.  After the crashed, I sent Mike a text saying that I had to brake at that corner because I also saw the same trash that he saw on that part of the road.  Anyway Mike never replied, and I never followed up. 

FWIW, I've ridden dirt bikes for many years.  Going on six years riding sportbike, ~40k total miles(I rarely ride my bikes to work, so most of the miles are on the twisties).  This is my 7th bike(Ninja 250&500, zx-6r, r6s, r6, r1, and s1000rr), and one crash in Arkansas.  I've never claim to be an expert and I've taken  six track days to better my riding skills. 

Mike-  You did ask for people opinions  and I hope you got your answer. Dave was behind me and you speed up and passed him up right before the curve.  Also, before we got to this point, you almost crash once already.

[Aprilian]

now this is getting interesting 

[gely]

now this is getting interesting 

Start the pop corn making machine.

[tk]

Yeah, well if you read the whole thread......   

Okay, my bad. I was too lazy to read the whole thread. For future reference dis me on facebook where I won't see it

[Deplorable, thank you!]

Ge, I think you are taking some criticism too personally. It isn't a big secret you are super fast in a straightline and (for some) painfully slow through the turns...
 Not to pile on, but....
 Despite your riding resume ( I don't think any of those 6 trackdays have "improved" your street riding), well you said it - you aren't an expert. So admitting that may be a good step towards actually improving your riding, instead of working on improving your "speed".
FYI--I do not blame you for Mikes crash. Were you a factor? -definitely.
But the crash itself is all on Mike. The "Debris" had nothing to do with anything, it seems to be just an excuse to justify the crash or whatever....The speed, well I guess that depends on skill level---the "triple black diamond" riders of this group routinely take that series of corners faster than you guys were going.....so it a skill level question (and I have no idea besides what I have seen or read of Mikes skill level--based solely on this video, this crash, this thread though, I would say he too has way allot to work on)
 So instead of getting all butt hurt and offended by what someone is saying, well perhaps figure out why that is their perception....Why it is lots of peoples perception. Everyone can improve on their riding regardless of how long they have ridden or how many miles ( I have more than 25 times as many miles as you plus over 6 times as many years and I still work on improving my riding skills) So if you think 6 years and 40,000 miles somehow makes you a "good" or "safe" rider you have already lost the battle of learning and developing as rider---your bike choice has already hindered you, don't let your ego hinder you even further.

 I realize you want to go out on "group" rides and "keep up", and prior to owning a bike with TC and ABS you could not, and now that you rely solely on those things to "save you" from your own riding, and to "keep up".....well that is what I am getting at when I say your bike is already hindering your development as a rider...Any Joe can whack a throttle open if they know TC will "save" them.....Any Joe can slam on the brakes if they know ABS will "save" them--that isn't skill--that is a recipe for disaster.