The Answer to Whether You Can Join a Ride Posted on the Forum

[Deplorable, thank you!]

I certainly am not looking to kick you off....if that is what you think/believe.
 I was simply asking a question based on Rays explanation.



Of course there are a few dozen I know do not belong here and would love to see them go...Kicked off or willingly (big shocker right?)


I am all for having a variety of rides on a variety of days too...As long as they uphold the principals of the organization and most importantly know how to ride and ride pretty damn well, regardless if it is +0 or +25...

Triple digits and hard braking and asspacking and crossing the centerline (using the road as a racetrack) are what those other forum riders do.....those people ( as referenced above) are all members of those forums anyways--why don't they just stay there and leave the adults to ride here in peace. There is absolutely no reason for them to be here, except they use us to gather routes, organize and be "led"
That is one of my biggest complaints---too many idiots who think they know it all and come here and ruin nearly every ride they attend, put lives in danger (not just there own) and give this club a very bad appearance and reputation....

[Jared]

Think about it like a church. Everyone is welcome no matter what their faith is as long as they are respectful of the church. Churches would get no where if all they did was preach and/or serve the already converted.

Uh-uh, how long until the koolaid comes out?

[Mike Duluth]

I'm happy to pay the MSTA dues, it's worth it just to get the news letters thoughout the year. It's always fun to dream about and go on some of the trips and events they put on.

[vince]

 I have looked at being a MSTA paying member but I cant see any benefit to it at all.
[/quote]
This is a valid point. Why. I didn't join for some time either. Earlier there were more dues paying rides now we have only one for this area. If I remember on the old format there was listed closed and open to other rider rides. I think this changed when MNSBR started. I think we could have at least one more closed ride a year to start with, say the Rockton ride maybe.
I'm just rambling here but I have ridden maybe all of these roads over the years but because we have the internet the info get out to every one fast and easy. So these routes that we take are being used more by others. Last year on the Swan ride we road a lot of roads we take all the time but their were others that have never been on any of them but 35 and 61 if you can believe that. These people would maybe joint to learn these roads, they did give to a charity to ride so why not join.
For me I join because Ray came on one of my rides he then showed me that you can ride the bike with out braking the throttle cable on these rides. In fact I even get less tickets now. I join because when you go to one of these pay to ride events you are with a differant group of riders. These are truly die hard bikers and you can see it when you look at their bikes and how they dress. When you see them you find out that you are still learning. They have already been there and tried that and done that sort of thing. They don't take the car to work they live on the bike.
MSTA does stress safety more than others that for sure. They always gave me crap for not wearing anything but a helmet. No one ever told me I couldn't ride along but I have been called a squid many a time. Even Paul post once about a picture he saw of me at the Tail. He says BOOTS BOOTS VINCE IS WEARING BOOTS. I finally bought some boots. Squid had finally got to me.
Well maybe we could make some changes and see how they work. Try one for a year and if it don't change it and go back. Then try something else. One of the big changes I like was the change to this format.
One last thing, should I change my forum name to speed freak of just leave it the same. Lol.

[Ray916MN]

I certainly am not looking to kick you off....if that is what you think/believe.
 I was simply asking a question based on Rays explanation.

Of course there are a few dozen I know do not belong here and would love to see them go...Kicked off or willingly (big shocker right?)

I am all for having a variety of rides on a variety of days too...As long as they uphold the principals of the organization and most importantly know how to ride and ride pretty damn well, regardless if it is +0 or +25...

Triple digits and hard braking and asspacking and crossing the centerline (using the road as a racetrack) are what those other forum riders do.....those people ( as referenced above) are all members of those forums anyways--why don't they just stay there and leave the adults to ride here in peace. There is absolutely no reason for them to be here, except they use us to gather routes, organize and be "led"

That is one of my biggest complaints---too many idiots who think they know it all and come here and ruin nearly every ride they attend, put lives in danger (not just there own) and give this club a very bad appearance and reputation....

While personally triple digits, hard braking and crossing the center line to allow me to successfully navigate a turn are not things I enjoy doing, clearly they are riding practices that some others practice. Some are successful in riding this way for long periods of time, some are not. I personally stay away from these people, but there are other MSTA members who do not. The club is not here to tell others how to ride unless the way the others ride endangers other members.  When a rider's riding endangers others, they should be asked to leave.

Typically, what members have done when these people show up on rides is:

- let them go out first and don't follow them as part of their group
- if they are in your group, tell them to pass or get off of your ass
- slow down when leading them to the point they pass before a route change and then do not wait for them at the route change
- not provide mechanical assistance to them in the event they need mechanical assistance
- ignore them socially, with holding the group attention they often seek
- decline to allow these people to be part of riding groups they lead
- decline to show up for rides these people post on the forum

Most often, the people who like to ride like asshats simply get bored with the way we ride and stop showing up for rides. In the one situation where I saw a group of MSTA members confront a group for riding like asshats on an MSTA ride, the people riding like asshats  vowed to come back and ruin every single MSTA ride in the future. Confronting the irrational failed to make them see reason or be me more rational. It had the opposite effect.

I have not observed asshats ruining the rides I've been on. Certainly there have been folks on rides who I personally was not very interested in riding with, who did not ride the way I like to ride, but these people did not ruin my ride and I assume the people who rode with them we're okay with the way the riding went or they would have elected to ride with different people.

Just as with riding, the club encourages everyone to make their own decisions on what they think is the right way to ride and who and how they ride with others. The club in no way wants to dictate how everyone has to ride, although it is clear that the vast majority of members prefer to ride the Pace.

[Ray916MN]

Think about it like a church. Everyone is welcome no matter what their faith is as long as they are respectful of the church. Churches would get no where if all they did was preach and/or serve the already converted.

Uh-uh, how long until the koolaid comes out?

The MSTA is an older crowd so it is more typically Fat Tire or Spotted Cow at MSTA rallies...

[Jared]

LOL.  I meant koolaid as in Jim Jones, not koolaid as in church bake sale.

[Deplorable, thank you!]

So devils advocate..........what about the non like minded riders?

Think about it like a church. Everyone is welcome no matter what their faith is as long as they are respectful of the church. Churches would get no where if all they did was preach and/or serve the already converted.

We are not here to convert.........Or atleast everything I read and have heard indicates this.

We are here to ride with like minded (already converted) individuals. I do believe you say this yourself many times....But I know that is why I am here and about 16 other members who have sent me PM's, emails and texts....We already have a majority who want safe proficient sane riding that don't use the road as a reacetrack.....why allow the few to spoil it for the many


I have observed asshats (and so have you and Vince and D and Joel and Tony and Paul and Greg and others.....) ruining rides you have been on. Maybe your acceptance of nearly anything goes (seems to be what you are posting) has tainted your memory and view.

So yes we should eliminate the non converted IMO, they certainly are not following the standards set, the ideals and riding proficiency we strive for. They fit in to the beliefs and standards of other clubs far better...OH wait they already are members there too. Good they already have a home, elsewhere......

[Deplorable, thank you!]

 GREG--- (and anyone who feels the need to know)

You know what....

A much more honest and complete answer to you about why I have changed my screen name;

Yes I am tired of obdurate and it has lost its luster. Yes I am poking a stick in the eye of someone else now....

But the biggest reason I don't want my real name up in lights here....

I am embarrassed at what is tolerated and accepted here as okay riding behavior and I don't want my customers to know that I ride with this group. They surely would surmise that I ride like what many of these idiot ride posting and videos show.
(judgemental, sure....we all make judgement decisions)

I hear about rides etc from customers many times a week. I have customers who talk about this forum or that and what they read here or there. Far too many have read what is on this forum and have never actually ridden with me, so until they actually have ridden with me and see how I truly ride---I don't want them jumping to conclusions that "racetrack" riding of triples and crossing the centerline and riding like an inexperienced douchebag is how I ride.

This forum has truly become an embarrassment of bad riding skills and no accountability or responsibility.

 Can I change that? Not by myself.

Will it change? Only if people take a stand and make it change.

[Mike Duluth]

Like me Lloyd I'm sure you have learned to be a good rider over the years. Most of what I have learned has come from riding with guys like you, so if you don't or won't ride with some of the people in question how will they learn? In my opinion it always works better to set an example than telling someone how crappy they are at something.

[Greg]

So devils advocate..........what about the non like minded riders?

Think about it like a church. Everyone is welcome no matter what their faith is as long as they are respectful of the church. Churches would get no where if all they did was preach and/or serve the already converted.

We are not here to convert.........Or atleast everything I read and have heard indicates this.

We are here to ride with like minded (already converted) individuals. I do believe you say this yourself many times....But I know that is why I am here and about 16 other members who have sent me PM's, emails and texts....We already have a majority who want safe proficient sane riding that don't use the road as a reacetrack.....why allow the few to spoil it for the many


I have observed asshats (and so have you and Vince and D and Joel and Tony and Paul and Greg and others.....) ruining rides you have been on. Maybe your acceptance of nearly anything goes (seems to be what you are posting) has tainted your memory and view.

So yes we should eliminate the non converted IMO, they certainly are not following the standards set, the ideals and riding proficiency we strive for. They fit in to the beliefs and standards of other clubs far better...OH wait they already are members there too. Good they already have a home, elsewhere......

Lloyd,
  As you're prone to say ... Your views are yours alone. Please don't include me in your presumptions about how I do or don't feel about a subject. mkay? 
 

Thanks

[vince]

It is hard to turn back the clock and maybe we have told others about this forum to easily and grown to fast. This may of seemed like good idea at the time. I am guilty of this. I have in the past posted rides on other forums. And I know some didn't like it and now we ask that this not be done. I did this I thought to show the others how we ride and to do it safely. They are young and when you get so many of them together at one time they learn nothing. Now if I bring some one I call them and ask them to come but just them. So an invite on a one on one is really the right way to do it and maybe they should stick with you.  They may join latter and maybe not. Some don't care for the long rides, some don't care for the narrow roads, but I think this just comes down to there skill level.
Maybe a few others could chime in and say something and get some more ideas out there. I would like to see some more closed rides. Right now we have one we pay to ride and all others ore just open to what ever. So maybe one that is close to only dues paying but still free to ride and then on from there. Thoughts.

[Aprilian]

Typically, what members have done when these people show up on rides is:

- let them go out first and don't follow them as part of their group
- if they are in your group, tell them to pass or get off of your ass
- slow down when leading them to the point they pass before a route change and then do not wait for them at the route change
- not provide mechanical assistance to them in the event they need mechanical assistance
- ignore them socially, with holding the group attention they often seek
- decline to allow these people to be part of riding groups they lead
- decline to show up for rides these people post on the forum

I feel OK doing those things, but where the problem comes up is that I don't feel OK waving my middle finger as I go past a crashed biker.   To me the ultimate warning would be, "You crash and we're not stopping to help you, medical emergency or not!"

[pkpk]

Even Paul post once about a picture he saw of me at the Tail. He says BOOTS BOOTS VINCE IS WEARING BOOTS. I finally bought some boots.

Damn proud of you too.  I know, I know, the tennies gave you that extra sensitivity so you can better finesse clutch and braking.  But it doesn't take much searching on the web to find horror stories of ground down ankles and feet from lowsides.  Something like that could be a life-changer that you don't want.

[Mike Duluth]

I'm with Vince on the one on one idea, when you get more than one of these hooligans they can make there own competition.