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Author Topic: Crashes Reported in the Media  (Read 156364 times)

Offline Greg

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Re: Crashes Reported in the Media
« Reply #225 on: July 20, 2012, 02:47:14 PM »
Holy caps lock, Batman .....

Case Number:    12320511    MSP District Number:    3200
Incident Location:    6 M N BLACKDUCK ON HWY 72    Incident Date/Time:    7/15/2012 10:23:00 AM
Nbr. of Vehicles:    1    Incident Type:     PERSONAL INJURY
     
Incident Desc:    VEH RAN OFF ROAD LEFT OVER THE CENTERLINE, VEH ENTERED EAST DITCH, TRAVELED ON INSIDE DITCH SLOPE, VEH STRUCK A LEG OF A NO PASSING SIGN WITH THE LEFT REAR DOOR AREA, THE DOOR WINDOW BROKE OUT AND VEH BOUNCING IN DITCH REAR PASSENGER KENDALL ERICKSEN WHO WAS SLEEPING IN THE REAR PASSENGER AREA WAS EJECTED OUT OF THE WINDOW AND LANDED IN DITCH. THE VEH THEN ENTERED BACK ONTO THE HWY AND CONTINUED SOUTHBOUND. THE DRIVER AND OCCUPANT ASHLEY THEN REALIZED KENDALL WAS MISSING. THEY WENT BACK TO THE SCENE OF WHERE THE VEH HAD ENTERED THE DITCH AND FOUND KENDALL STANDING ALONG THE HWY. MINOR INJURY.

Kendall is a very lucky girl.

These people have taught me more about riding than any day spent on a track: Larry B, Tony K, Vince J, Mr. Wonderful, V2Neal, Marty F, Kevin B, Devon W, Ehrich, Mike A, John L, Arnell, Kirk, Ray C

Track days are like climbing the rock wall at REI.
Perhaps I need to stop taking the high road.

Offline pkpk

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Re: Crashes Reported in the Media
« Reply #226 on: July 20, 2012, 08:43:01 PM »
Yeah, that one not only got on national news, but also on Letterman.  Unfortunately the butt of the joke was the fact that the elderly driver had no clue she lost her granddaughter for several miles before realizing her window was blown out and her granddaughter missing.  So many questions on several levels (elderly drivers, rear seatbelts, etc.)

Offline Hope2Ride

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Re: Crashes Reported in the Media
« Reply #227 on: July 20, 2012, 10:01:16 PM »
the elderly driver had no clue she lost her granddaughter for several miles before realizing her window was blown out and her granddaughter missing.

That's scary as hell that she still has a license. I hate that elderly people are allowed to drive without having to prove competancy. Most of the ones I see on the road (usually because they almost caused an accident and don't even know it) are totally oblivious to what's going on around them. I hope when I'm no longer a safe driver my kids will be smart enought to take away my car keys.


2011 Honda CBR 250R

Offline BluegrassPicker

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Re: Crashes Reported in the Media
« Reply #228 on: July 22, 2012, 03:20:21 PM »
I think this is really useful info.. Thanks for the posting and the link,
Tom

Offline pkpk

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Re: Crashes Reported in the Media
« Reply #229 on: July 23, 2012, 11:58:02 AM »
All available information for
incident number 12300590.

    Incident Number:    12300590    Incident Date/Time:    7/22/2012 2:15:00 PM
    MSP District:    2300    Incident Contact:    MN STATE PATROL DISTRICT 2300 - (507) 537-6277
    Number of Individuals:    2       
    Number of Vehicles:    1    
                   
    Location:    HWY 212 1 E OF GRANITE FALLS    Road Type:    CONCRETE
    Milepost:    NONE RECORDED    Road Condition:    DRY
    County:    YELLOW MEDICINE    Number of Lanes:    2
    Crash Type:    NONE RECORDED    Divided/Undivided:    UNDIVIDED ROADWAY
    Incident Classification:    PERSONAL INJURY    Hazardous Material:    NOT PRESENT
                   
    Assisting Agencies:
       
    YELLOW MEDICINE COUNTY SHERIFF OFFICE
                   
     Person 1:    MONSON, BRADLEY , 52 , OF GRANITE FALLS MN , DRIVER OF VEH 1 , Phys. Cond. : TREATED AND RELEASED
     Person 2:    SHEROD, TRACY , 47 , OF (CITY UNKNOWN)MN , PASSENGER OF VEH 1 , Phys. Cond. : TREATED AND RELEASED
     

    Vehicle 1:
       2005   HARLEY MODEL UNKNOWN 
     
          
    IncidentDescription:    2005 HARLEY MC EB ON HWY 212, DEER CAME UP OUT OF S DITCH AND MC STRUCK THE DEER.
            
    Information Complete:    INFORMATION BELIEVED COMPLETE   
    Last Updated:    7/22/2012 7:41:37 PM
         
         

Offline pkpk

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Re: Crashes Reported in the Media
« Reply #230 on: July 23, 2012, 12:00:05 PM »
I wonder what is a "soft spot in the road".

All available information for
incident number 12900720.

    Incident Number:    12900720    Incident Date/Time:    7/22/2012 4:06:00 PM
    MSP District:    2900    Incident Contact:    MN STATE PATROL DISTRICT 2600 - (320) 255-2916
    Number of Individuals:    1       
    Number of Vehicles:    1    
                   
    Location:    HWY 113 ABOUT 26 MILES EAST OF WAUBUN    Road Type:    BLACK TOP
    Milepost:    42    Road Condition:    DRY
    County:    BECKER    Number of Lanes:    2
    Crash Type:    RAN OFF ROAD    Divided/Undivided:    UNDIVIDED ROADWAY
    Incident Classification:    SERIOUS INJURY    Hazardous Material:    NOT PRESENT
                   
    Assisting Agencies:
       
    BECKER COUNTY SHERIFF OFFICE
    BECKER COUNTY SHERIFF OFFICE
                   
     Person 1:    BERNIER, KEVIN G , 49 , OF ABERCROMBIE ND , DRIVER OF VEH 1 , Phys. Cond. : INJURY - NON LIFE THREATENING
     

    Vehicle 1:
       2008   YAMAHA RS 
     
          
    IncidentDescription:    CYCLE WAS AMONG A GROUP OF RIDERS, WESTBOUND ON HWY 113. HE HIT A SOFT SPOT ON THE ROAD AND LOST CONTROL, GOING OFF RIGHT SIDE OF THE ROAD WHERE HE STRUCK A HIGHWAY SIGN BEFORE COMING TO REST IN THE DITCH WHERE HE WAS THROWN FROM THE CYCLE. STATE PATROL WAS ASSISTED BY CARSONVILLE E.M.S , WHITE EARTH TRIBAL POLICE, AND BECKER COUNTY SHERIFF DEPT. RIDER WAS ONLY OCCUPANT ON THE CYCLE AND WAS TRANSPORTED TO ESSENTIA HOSPITAL IN FARGO VIA NORTH MEMORIAL AMBULANCE OUT OF PARK RAPIDS.
            
    Information Complete:    INFORMATION BELIEVED COMPLETE   
    Last Updated:    7/22/2012 10:35:01 PM
 
Individual Records

    Listed below are the individual records that match the criteria you specified.
    *Estimated age used only when true age is unknown.
    Case Number:    12900720    Seatbelt:    N/A
    Incident Date/Time:    7/22/2012 4:06:00 PM    Airbag:    N/A
    Info Released:    7/23/2012 6:00:00 AM    Helmet:    YES
                   
    Person ID:    12900720V1P1    Age:    49
    Full Name:    BERNIER, KEVIN G    Estimated Age:    49
    Associated Vehicle:    12900720V1    Alcohol in System:    NO ALCOHOL DETECTED
    Role in Crash:    DRIVER    Hospital:    ESSENTIA , FARGO 
    Residence:    ABERCROMBIE , ND , USA    Physical Condition:    INJURY - NON LIFE THREATENING 
    Sex:    MALE       
    Relation to Driver:    SELF    Fatal Date:    N/A - NOT RECORDED        

Offline pkpk

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Re: Crashes Reported in the Media
« Reply #231 on: July 23, 2012, 12:02:05 PM »
All available information for
incident number 12507041.

    Incident Number:    12507041    Incident Date/Time:    7/22/2012 7:44:00 PM
    MSP District:    2500    Incident Contact:    MN STATE PATROL DISTRICT 2500 - (763) 591-4680
    Number of Individuals:    1       
    Number of Vehicles:    1    
                   
    Location:    NB 94 TO WB 394    Road Type:    CONCRETE
    Milepost:    NONE RECORDED    Road Condition:    DRY
    County:    HENNEPIN    Number of Lanes:    2
    Crash Type:    RAN OFF ROAD    Divided/Undivided:    DIVIDED ROADWAY
    Incident Classification:    SERIOUS INJURY    Hazardous Material:    NOT PRESENT
                   
    Assisting Agencies:
       
                   
     Person 1:    MEYERS, LEE G , 48 , OF MINNEAPOLIS MN , DRIVER OF VEH 1 , Phys. Cond. : CRITICAL CONDITION
     

    Vehicle 1:
       2007   YAMA MC 
     
          
    IncidentDescription:    MC WAS NB 94 IN LEFT LANE, CUT ACROSS LANES AT HIGH SPEED TO CATCH EXIT RAMP TO 394. LOST CONTROL IN THE CURVE. DRIVER WAS EJECTED AND FLIPPED SEVERAL TIMES. THE BIKE CAME RO REST ALONG THE GUARDRAIL, AND THE DRIVER WAS THROWN OVER THE GUARDRAIL.
            
    Information Complete:    INFORMATION BELIEVED COMPLETE   
    Last Updated:    7/23/2012 9:10:00 AM

Individual Records

    Listed below are the individual records that match the criteria you specified.
    *Estimated age used only when true age is unknown.
    Case Number:    12507041    Seatbelt:    UNKNOWN
    Incident Date/Time:    7/22/2012 7:44:00 PM    Airbag:    UNKNOWN
    Info Released:    7/22/2012    Helmet:    NO
                   
    Person ID:    12507041V1P1    Age:    48
    Full Name:    MEYERS, LEE G    Estimated Age:    ACTUAL AGE ABOVE
    Associated Vehicle:    12507041V1    Alcohol in System:    NO ALCOHOL DETECTED
    Role in Crash:    DRIVER    Hospital:    HCMC , MINNEAPOLIS 
    Residence:    MINNEAPOLIS , MN , US    Physical Condition:    CRITICAL CONDITION 
    Sex:    MALE       
    Relation to Driver:    SELF    Fatal Date:    N/A - NOT RECO
         

Offline pkpk

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Re: Crashes Reported in the Media
« Reply #232 on: July 24, 2012, 11:09:07 PM »
All available information for
incident number 12300595.

    Incident Number:    12300595    Incident Date/Time:    7/24/2012 8:30:00 AM
    MSP District:    2300    Incident Contact:    MN STATE PATROL DISTRICT 2300 - (507) 537-6277
    Number of Individuals:    2       
    Number of Vehicles:    2    
                   
    Location:    HWY 75/CR 7 - HARDWICK CORNER    Road Type:    BLACK TOP
    Milepost:    18    Road Condition:    NOT RECORDED
    County:    ROCK    Number of Lanes:    2
    Crash Type:    BROADSIDE    Divided/Undivided:    UNDIVIDED ROADWAY
    Incident Classification:    FATAL    Hazardous Material:    NOT PRESENT
                   
    Assisting Agencies:
       
    ROCK COUNTY SHERIFF OFFICE
                   
     Person 1:    HANSEN, MICHAEL L , 43 , OF SIOUX CITY IA , DRIVER OF VEH 1 , Phys. Cond. : NO APPARENT INJURY
     Person 2:    SLIETER, DALE E , 55 , OF HARDWICK MN , DRIVER OF VEH 2 , Phys. Cond. : DECEASED
     

    Vehicle 1:
       2007   INTERNATIONAL TRUCK 

    Vehicle 2:
       1983   HONDA MOTORCYCLE 
     
          
    IncidentDescription:    VEHICLE #1 WAS NORTHBOUND ON HIGHWAY 75 AT THE INTERSECTION OF 191ST STREET. VEHICLE #2 WAS SOUTHBOUND APPROACHING THE SAME LOCATION. VEHICLE #1 INITIATED A LEFT TURN ONTO 191ST STREET DIRECTLY IN FRONT OF VEHICLE #2. VEHICLE #2 THE STRUCK THE RIGHT SIDE OF VEHICLE #1.
            
    Information Complete:    INFORMATION BELIEVED COMPLETE   
    Last Updated:    7/24/2012 8:15:31 PM

Individual Records

    Listed below are the individual records that match the criteria you specified.
    *Estimated age used only when true age is unknown.
    Case Number:    12300595    Seatbelt:    UNKNOWN
    Incident Date/Time:    7/24/2012 8:30:00 AM    Airbag:    UNKNOWN
    Info Released:    7/24/2012 8:00:00 PM    Helmet:    YES
                   
    Person ID:    12300595V2P2    Age:    55
    Full Name:    SLIETER, DALE E    Estimated Age:    ACTUAL AGE ABOVE
    Associated Vehicle:    12300595V2    Alcohol in System:    UNKNOWN
    Role in Crash:    DRIVER    Hospital:    NONE , NONE 
    Residence:    HARDWICK , MN , US    Physical Condition:    DECEASED 
    Sex:    MALE       
    Relation to Driver:    SELF    Fatal Date:    7/24/2012 8:30:00 AM
                   

Offline pkpk

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Re: Crashes Reported in the Media
« Reply #233 on: July 27, 2012, 11:40:49 PM »
This one was updated as a fatal.

All available information for
incident number 12800959.

    Incident Number:    12800959    Incident Date/Time:    7/24/2012 8:48:00 PM
    MSP District:    2800    Incident Contact:    MN STATE PATROL DISTRICT 2800 - (218) 828-2230
    Number of Individuals:    2       
    Number of Vehicles:    1    
                   
    Location:    HWY 47, 11 N OF OGILVIE    Road Type:    BLACK TOP
    Milepost:    80    Road Condition:    DRY
    County:    KANABEC    Number of Lanes:    2
    Crash Type:    OTHER    Divided/Undivided:    UNDIVIDED ROADWAY
    Incident Classification:    SERIOUS INJURY    Hazardous Material:    NOT PRESENT
                   
    Assisting Agencies:
       
    KANABEC COUNTY SHERIFF OFFICE
    MILLE LACS COUNTY SHERIFF OFFICE
                   
     Person 1:    OVSAK, BRIAN E , 24 , OF OGILVIE MN , DRIVER OF VEH 1 , Phys. Cond. : CRITICAL CONDITION
     Person 2:    OLSON, KATE A , 26 , OF MORA MN , PASSENGER OF VEH 1 , Phys. Cond. : INJURY - NON LIFE THREATENING
     

    Vehicle 1:
       2003   HONDA MOTORCYCLE 
     
          
    IncidentDescription:    MOTORCYCLE WAS NB ON HWY 47 WHEN A DEER RAN OUT FROM THE WEST DITCH. THE DRIVER APPLIED THE BRAKE HARD CAUSING THE REAR TO SLIDE AND THE MOTORCYCLE TIPPED OVER. THE DRIVER & PASSENGER SLID INTO THE RIGHT DITCH.
            
    Information Complete:    INFORMATION BELIEVED COMPLETE   
    Last Updated:    7/25/2012 3:45:40 AM

Individual Records

    Listed below are the individual records that match the criteria you specified.
    *Estimated age used only when true age is unknown.
    Case Number:    12800959    Seatbelt:    N/A
    Incident Date/Time:    7/24/2012 8:48:00 PM    Airbag:    N/A
    Info Released:    NOT RECORDED    Helmet:    NO
                   
    Person ID:    12800959V1P1    Age:    24
    Full Name:    OVSAK, BRIAN E    Estimated Age:    ACTUAL AGE ABOVE
    Associated Vehicle:    12800959V1    Alcohol in System:    NO ALCOHOL DETECTED
    Role in Crash:    DRIVER    Hospital:    NORTH MEMORIAL , ROBBINSDALE, MN 
    Residence:    OGILVIE , MN , USA    Physical Condition:    CRITICAL CONDITION 
    Sex:    MALE       
    Relation to Driver:    SELF    Fatal Date:    N/A - NOT RECORDED
                   

Offline pkpk

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Re: Crashes Reported in the Media
« Reply #234 on: July 27, 2012, 11:44:15 PM »
All available information for
incident number 12603430.

    Incident Number:    12603430    Incident Date/Time:    7/26/2012 11:12:00 AM
    MSP District:    2600    Incident Contact:    MN STATE PATROL DISTRICT 2600 - (320) 255-2916
    Number of Individuals:    1       
    Number of Vehicles:    1    
                   
    Location:    HWY 25 NORTH OF SILVER CORNERS    Road Type:    BLACK TOP
    Milepost:    113    Road Condition:    DRY
    County:    BENTON    Number of Lanes:    2
    Crash Type:    NONE RECORDED    Divided/Undivided:    UNDIVIDED ROADWAY
    Incident Classification:    FATAL    Hazardous Material:    NOT PRESENT
                   
    Assisting Agencies:
       
    BENTON COUNTY SHERIFF OFFICE
                   
     Person 1:    THEISEN, MATTHEW J , 23 , OF FOLEY MN , DRIVER OF VEH 1 , Phys. Cond. : DECEASED
     

    Vehicle 1:
       1982   KAWASAKI MOTORCYCLE 
     
          
    IncidentDescription:    VEH 1, A MOTORCYCLE STRUCK A DEER. DRIVER BECAME SEPERATED FROM THE MOTORCYCLE SUSTANING SERIOUS INJURIES AND WAS AIRLIFTED TO THE ST CLOUD HOSPITAL. **UPDATED INFO** 7/27/12 DRIVER OF VEH 1 DIED FROM INJURIES.
            
    Information Complete:    INFORMATION BELIEVED COMPLETE   
    Last Updated:    7/27/2012 8:39:10 AM
         


Offline pkpk

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Re: Crashes Reported in the Media
« Reply #235 on: July 27, 2012, 11:45:19 PM »
All available information for
incident number 12320546.

    Incident Number:    12320546    Incident Date/Time:    7/27/2012 3:42:00 PM
    MSP District:    3200    Incident Contact:    MN STATE PATROL DISTRICT 3200 - (218) 681-0943
    Number of Individuals:    2       
    Number of Vehicles:    2    
                   
    Location:    US 2 IN MCINTOSH    Road Type:    BLACK TOP
    Milepost:    NONE RECORDED    Road Condition:    DRY
    County:    POLK    Number of Lanes:    4
    Crash Type:    BROADSIDE    Divided/Undivided:    UNDIVIDED ROADWAY
    Incident Classification:    PERSONAL INJURY    Hazardous Material:    NOT PRESENT
                   
    Assisting Agencies:
       
    POLK COUNTY SHERIFF OFFICE
                   
     Person 1:    SISTAD, DANIEL G , 52 , OF FOSSTON MN , DRIVER OF VEH 1 , Phys. Cond. : NOT DOCUMENTED
     Person 2:    HAAVEN, LINDSAY B , 24 , OF MCINTOSH MN , DRIVER OF VEH 2 , Phys. Cond. : NO APPARENT INJURY
     

    Vehicle 1:
       2000   YAMAHA MOTORCYCLE 

    Vehicle 2:
       1998   OLDS REGENCY 
     
          
    IncidentDescription:    THE SISTAD VEHICLE WAS WB ON US 2 IN THE RIGHT LANE APPROACHING INTERSECTION. THE HAAVEN VEHICLE WAS SB ON POLK CSAH 8 ATTEMPTING TO CROSS WB US 2. HAAVEN VEHICLE PULLED INTO THE PATH OF WB SISTAD VEHICLE. VEHICLES COLLIDED. SISTAD WAS EJECTED INTO THE GRASS MEDIAN. SISTAD NOT WEARING A HELMUT AND WAS AIRLIFTED TO GRAND FORKS. HAAVEN WAS NOT INJURED AND WAS WEARING A SEATBELT. BOTH VEHICLE TOTALED.
            
    Information Complete:    INFORMATION BELIEVED COMPLETE   
    Last Updated:    7/27/2012 6:14:24 PM
         
          Individual Records

    Listed below are the individual records that match the criteria you specified.
    *Estimated age used only when true age is unknown.
    Case Number:    12320546    Seatbelt:    UNKNOWN
    Incident Date/Time:    7/27/2012 3:42:00 PM    Airbag:    UNKNOWN
    Info Released:    NOT RECORDED    Helmet:    NO
                   
    Person ID:    12320546V1P1    Age:    52
    Full Name:    SISTAD, DANIEL G    Estimated Age:    ACTUAL AGE ABOVE
    Associated Vehicle:    12320546V1    Alcohol in System:    UNKNOWN
    Role in Crash:    DRIVER    Hospital:    GRAND FORKS , GRAND FORKS, ND 
    Residence:    FOSSTON , MN , USA    Physical Condition:    NOT DOCUMENTED 
    Sex:    MALE       
    Relation to Driver:    SELF    Fatal Date:    N/A - NOT RECORDED
                   

Offline tk

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Re: Crashes Reported in the Media
« Reply #236 on: July 28, 2012, 03:17:03 PM »
It is just amazing how many of these crashes are caused by deer. These pests should be confined to preserves like is done with bison. Certainly we have the capability to shrink the deer population 95%.
It just takes the political will which is sadly lacking these days.

Support your local deer poacher.

Offline pkpk

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Re: Crashes Reported in the Media
« Reply #237 on: July 28, 2012, 06:42:15 PM »
I noticed that too Tony but the problem is deer hunting is big business in rural areas of MN and Wis.   When you have big hunting and fishing companies headquartered and/or operating in the midwest and retailers operating in smaller towns, it's not likely you will be able to convince lawmakers to force a policy to drastically reduce wild game.  Sadly, your life as a motorcyclist is weighed against big money and you can guess who wins.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2012, 09:16:18 PM by pkpk »

Offline pkpk

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Re: Crashes Reported in the Media
« Reply #238 on: July 29, 2012, 01:06:09 PM »
All available information for
incident number 12300607.

    Incident Number:    12300607    Incident Date/Time:    7/28/2012 8:49:00 AM
    MSP District:    2300    Incident Contact:    MN STATE PATROL DISTRICT 2300 - (507) 537-6277
    Number of Individuals:    1       
    Number of Vehicles:    1    
                   
    Location:    NOBLES COUNTY ROAD 4    Road Type:    BLACK TOP
    Milepost:    NONE RECORDED    Road Condition:    DRY
    County:    NOBLES    Number of Lanes:    2
    Crash Type:    ROLLOVER    Divided/Undivided:    UNDIVIDED ROADWAY
    Incident Classification:    PERSONAL INJURY    Hazardous Material:    NOT PRESENT
                   
    Assisting Agencies:
       
    NOBLES COUNTY SHERIFF OFFICE
                   
     Person 1:    LEX, PETER J , 43 , OF GRAND MEADOW MN , DRIVER OF VEH 1 , Phys. Cond. : MINOR INJURY
     

    Vehicle 1:
       2001   VICTORY MOTORCYCLE 
     
          
    IncidentDescription:    VEHICLE WAS WESTBOUND WHEN DRIVER THOUGHT THERE WAS A PROBLEM WITH THE BACK TIRE. WHEN HE TURNED TO LOOK HE LOST CONTROL, RAN OFF THE ROAD TO THE RIGHT AND ROLLED. DRIVER WAS EJECTED.
            
    Information Complete:    INFORMATION BELIEVED COMPLETE   
    Last Updated:    7/28/2012 10:12:00 PM
         
Individual Records

    Listed below are the individual records that match the criteria you specified.
    *Estimated age used only when true age is unknown.
    Case Number:    12300607    Seatbelt:    UNKNOWN
    Incident Date/Time:    7/28/2012 8:49:00 AM    Airbag:    UNKNOWN
    Info Released:    NOT RECORDED    Helmet:    NO
                   
    Person ID:    12300607V1P1    Age:    43
    Full Name:    LEX, PETER J    Estimated Age:    ACTUAL AGE ABOVE
    Associated Vehicle:    12300607V1    Alcohol in System:    UNKNOWN
    Role in Crash:    DRIVER    Hospital:    WORTHINGTON , WORTHINGTON 
    Residence:    GRAND MEADOW , MN , USA    Physical Condition:    MINOR INJURY 
    Sex:    MALE       
    Relation to Driver:    SELF    Fatal Date:    N/A - NOT RECORDED
                   
        

Offline Elk

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Re: Crashes Reported in the Media
« Reply #239 on: July 31, 2012, 08:00:37 PM »
It is just amazing how many of these crashes are caused by deer.
Yes.  I had not appreciated how big an issue deer strikes really are.  I have a couple of hunters on my property every year.  Perhaps I need to add a few more.

I am also surprised to see how few are in their 20's.  I thought the ages would be more evenly distributed, but most seem to be roughly 45 - 55 years old. 

A lot of Harleys also, but there are a lot of them on the road.