Riding Safely

[pkpk]

holy fuck!  whats with all the big fancy words?  shit happens, ppl make mistakes big deal.  i dont see how tony's lil fall has anything to do with the "culture" or anyone.  ive been on some awesome rides with a few of these guys, more then a couple with tony.  i guess unless you were in arkansas following him, or been on other rides with this group, well i would keep them kind of opinions to yourself. 

It's a Zebco.  Nothing more.  Ignore him.

[gdawgs]

funny thing is that this forum is snapping back and protecting one of its own. 

so Yul, if you haven't already deleted your account, feel free to show up at the next ride and see for yourself.  even though you have an abrasive way to contribute to the community, we are here to ride, so show up and learn something. 

report back here and tell us if the ride was conducted in a safe and prudent manner.......my money is on you changing your "theoretical mind" with an actual experience with the group, and not this "electronical experience". 

Basically.............show your balls please. 

[kp]

I don't want to see anyone's balls.

holy fuck!  whats with all the big fancy words?  shit happens, ppl make mistakes big deal.  i dont see how tony's lil fall has anything to do with the "culture" or anyone.  ive been on some awesome rides with a few of these guys, more then a couple with tony.  i guess unless you were in arkansas following him, or been on other rides with this group, well i would keep them kind of opinions to yourself. 

exactly!

[Deplorable, thank you!]

I'm still not understanding this whole need for "questions and analysis" thing on this forum.
I guess for me,  motorcycling is just an answer and does not need further analysis and disection.

Just ride the bike, dude.

I can only express my perspective on this

The "need" is fueled by there are so many members from other forums migrating over here. So many "newbies" who haven't been around for years and years and everyone knows them and how they ride.
So many members now who only post and never join a ride, or worse they only lurk then make some half cocked assumption and post it up as there introduction.

I may be very active on both ride organization/participation and the forum but I am not a long time member. There are numerous members who have been part of all the previous forms of the "club" and participate even more. Many who have stopped participating because of the "newbies" and perhaps even because of the "new" forum itself, and certainly some because of the way we have "cater" to newbies on the rides.

I hated the yahoo format simply because it was hard to use, I loved the yahoo format simply because of its simplicity and all you really saw on their was ride postings. When you "talked" to other people it was actually at the ride meeting spot and the creamary afterwards etc...you know in person face to face---In the era of internet everything, texting all day etc, I think that people have lost the ability to actually communicate (myself included)
This new (way too easy to use) format sucks rocks, because all it requires is for someone to have internet access and they can post up whatever they want whenever they want about anything they want and there are no real ramifications about it at all...oh boo hoo, you may get banned (very doubtful) it is far mor likely you will get a pm telling you of the error of your ways and hope that you see and agree and take appropriate steps.

"growing" the organization (if that is actually what is happening, I see 2 join, 1 leave. And you usually the 1 that leaves is worth more than 10 "newbies"...call me an elitist if you will, but I rather enjoy riding with and socializing with the 25 or so "old timers" and only about 4 of the new 100+ joinies since the format change.

I would much rather see 30-40 solid members who actually do have same or similar beliefs and riding (even if some are interested in a "fast paced, black diamond" ride while others want to "stop and smell the roses" and still others want to ride in the woods or fireroads. That is much more appealing to me than 200+ "members" where the vast majority have never even participated in a ride or anything productive for the organization.

So many of the postings that talk about ride safety and riding styles etc........yep all because there are so many uninitiated "newbies" who don't even participate and when they do (if they do) they are rudely awoken to what "pace" riding really is.

Like I have said many times, some people that have joined a ride have said "you guys are so slow" and others have said "you guys are so fast", it is all a matter of perspective. If you like running 100+ in a straight line and parking it in the turns, go find one of the other forums...if you think the street is a race track, hey those forums are perect for that too. On the other end if you think riding the posted recommended speed in the turns is fast, then you probably won't fit in here either-I am not saying you have to ride double +20 in the turns to enjoy a ride, but you should atleast have the capabilities and skills to do so.

FWIW

[Gramps]

I am not saying you have to ride double +20 in the turns to enjoy a ride, but you should atleast have the capabilities and skills to do so.

FWIW

Ding ding ding.........enough said. I absolutely agree and if you don't have those capabilities & skills, get some training.

[beedawg]

I am not saying you have to ride double +20 in the turns to enjoy a ride, but you should atleast have the capabilities and skills to do so.

FWIW

Ding ding ding.........enough said. I absolutely agree and if you don't have those capabilities & skills, get some training.

I absolutely disagree. Most people will never have the skills, no matter how much training they get, to ride double plus 20 through the turns.

[Deplorable, thank you!]

^ I perhaps should have clarified.

If you intend on joining in on the "black diamond" type of rides.
Of course there are other  forum rides for the "slow" folks...lol

[Deplorable, thank you!]

"I absolutely disagree. Most people will never have the skills, no matter how much training they get, to ride double plus 20 through the turns."

I guess I could be snarky now and argue this is exactly why we should stay a small elistist organization....LOL

oh the can o worms this could bring

[beedawg]

You make a good point, Lloyd.  Ray has said that he started the original list to find people to ride with.  I'm pretty sure he's more interested in fast, safe, experienced riders on sporty bikes who want to ride hundreds of miles of twisty roads per day, as opposed to relatively slow, inexperienced, slow cruiser riders who want to spend as much time stopped as riding.  That seems natural and normal, and I don't have a problem with that.

I just think it's kind of interesting that so many of us rate our own skill level by the speeds we're willing to ride and the risks we're willing to take.  I'm not saying that speed and risk-taking is bad.  I'm just saying that it's not the only way to rate a rider, and the street is a terrible place to do that.

Some of the faster people I've ridden with have been fascinating, but so have some of the slower, more risk-averse people.  I can't say I've learned more from one group than from the other.

Brent

[Deplorable, thank you!]

quote author=Vander link=topic=803.msg7715#msg7715 date=1317069764]
Double + 20? 

I am assuming that your assessment of "capability" is excluding any and all road anomalies, yes?
[/quote]

 I never set out on a ride and say "today I am going to ride double +20 through every turn" that would be foolhardy and the sure sign of what I consider to be an IDIOT !

 I always take into account road conditions, as well as numerous other factors. The "core" group of "black diamond" riders on here do.

I have no problem leading a group or riding in a group or even riding solo at a "slower" pace.

I do think (without speaking for all of them) that everyone on here I actually enjoy ridng with feel the same way.

So even though popular opinion is that I only ride black diamond routes at break neck (double+20) speeds...Well atleast they got the black diamond routes correct, yes those are definately my preffered routes.
I am all for riders having a "slower" pace, or prefferring different roads or riding styles, but have you read the front page?
Have you joined in on any of the vast majority of rides? ( not you Brent, I know you have the skills and have joined)
Black diamond roads and skills required should be that of those who are capable of riding double +20, accidents still can and will happen, even the cruiser guys who never exceed 60mph and have to put their feet down in the turns to keep from tipping over have accidents (statistically more, surprisingly---so I am told by someone in the insurance industry).

Anyways, the forum seems to have been built on the philosophy of; ride the toughest most challenging roads one can find and link together at speeds (pace riding but brisk to say the least) that will make many cringe. With other finely tuned, well skilled individuals.
Today we seem to have a few "groups" within the group---and I am all for that ! But the "black diamond" riders still are the majority of rides and clearly not for everyone. Especially  not for the underskilled and over confident.

Someone else please join in---I can't explain it all.


Vander that is a loaded question----in your last post.
I could ride through it as fast as I could ride though it. Hows that for an evasive answer---where is this road I'll go try it and give you my answer, it looks like a fun road...LOL

[beedawg]

Everyone could ride this curve at roughly the same speed, maybe 50 mph, depending on the bike and how it was set up (suspension, tires, clearance, cargo, etc).  How fast I would ride it would depend on a whole lot of factors, such as my perception of the conditions at the time, who I was riding with, how energized I felt, how important it was that I didn't crash, and probably more.

After that, I'm confused.  Are you asking how fast we'd enter it?  Exit (exist) it?  I don't understand the question "Pace?"

[Chris]

Lots of variables, for me to say.

Where is that road at?

[Aprilian]

Based on the size of that truck, that corner should not be marked 15.   That is probably the speed suggested for a semi on a dark,  snowy and blowing winter night.    I notice that there is a gravel pit on the outside of the curve and a dirt pullout on the other side.   I'd be cautious around that gravel pit (like the ones on Wi J and MN 60) until I'd been around it enough times to be able to know where I could adjust in response to a bad gravel spill.   Otherwise on a clear day, with positive camber, good road surface, good tires, good weather, I'd probably manage 20MPH because I'd have the luck to get stuck behind that truck in your picture (just like the car in the picture).

[gdawgs]

i say double black, cuz you won't go back. 

[Ray916MN]

Mullholland? Made me think of this video.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/oBTGgT_V5F8" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/oBTGgT_V5F8</a>

Which direction of travel? Kind of got that decreasing radius thing going on in either direction from the looks of it. Also a multiple apex turn either direction. Top down view is pretty impossible to project what the sight line looks like although I'd expect the clockwise direction to be a bit blind approaching the apex due to the trees on the inside.

I'll bet there is a pretty orbit view off the outside too! Probably be thinking Thelma and Louise going around it....